TheFink
Oct 9, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by Cappy
Faster this, faster that. Software here, software there. Upgrade this, upgrade that. Blah! Blah! Blah!
I like computers just as much as the next geek but when you break it all down what can't you do with computers and OS's from even 5 years ago that you can today? In truth the only real benefits are that Windows and Mac systems are faster and more stable than they used to be. For Macs to make any inroads more innovation is the key. They cannot compete on price/performance and never will. Moving to x86 could help of course. Note that most people don't buy Macs because of price and not because of performance issues.
So with this in mind if you set aside the small contingent that truly needs faster Macs for their jobs in professional settings, the Mac really needs lower prices and more innovation. Do that and Apple will have a winner that they would need to open up the clone market again just to be able to make enough of them.
Frankly this whole benchmark argument is stupid for most of the people here. Benchmarks should be used as nothing more than a guide and you should have multiple sources if you want to base a purchasing decision from them alone. Too many people treat them as the end all be all.
One point you are missing is that I can upgrade my PC 5 times over and still have the cost be lower than buying a new Mac. So a mac can run modern apps 5 years later. For the same price, I can get a PC, drop a new HD, video card, and CPU in a few years later and then end up with a leading edge PC, and not a bleading edge mac. My B&W; G3 isn't even upgradable to the speeds of the current iMacs. With a PC a new mobo and CPU will get me into whatever is the current CPU class....
Faster this, faster that. Software here, software there. Upgrade this, upgrade that. Blah! Blah! Blah!
I like computers just as much as the next geek but when you break it all down what can't you do with computers and OS's from even 5 years ago that you can today? In truth the only real benefits are that Windows and Mac systems are faster and more stable than they used to be. For Macs to make any inroads more innovation is the key. They cannot compete on price/performance and never will. Moving to x86 could help of course. Note that most people don't buy Macs because of price and not because of performance issues.
So with this in mind if you set aside the small contingent that truly needs faster Macs for their jobs in professional settings, the Mac really needs lower prices and more innovation. Do that and Apple will have a winner that they would need to open up the clone market again just to be able to make enough of them.
Frankly this whole benchmark argument is stupid for most of the people here. Benchmarks should be used as nothing more than a guide and you should have multiple sources if you want to base a purchasing decision from them alone. Too many people treat them as the end all be all.
One point you are missing is that I can upgrade my PC 5 times over and still have the cost be lower than buying a new Mac. So a mac can run modern apps 5 years later. For the same price, I can get a PC, drop a new HD, video card, and CPU in a few years later and then end up with a leading edge PC, and not a bleading edge mac. My B&W; G3 isn't even upgradable to the speeds of the current iMacs. With a PC a new mobo and CPU will get me into whatever is the current CPU class....
edifyingGerbil
Apr 22, 08:28 PM
I would argue not choosing to believe in a divine being is more rational than hedging your bets.
Why?
Look up Pascal's wager
Why?
Look up Pascal's wager
MacCoaster
Oct 10, 02:21 AM
Originally posted by javajedi
Someone inquired about the benchmark Java console program I created:
It's located at http://members.ij.net/javajedi
I've also included the source (FPMathTest.java) for the curious.
Kevin
That was me. :)
Thanks. See above post for my results. I even ported your Java code to C# (so similar, it scared me!) and got slightly lower numbers.
8152, 8151, 8162, 8142, 8172, 8142, 8161, 8152... all for a final average of 8154.25.
[edit: whoa, recently got 7891... running it more to average]
[edit #2: 7891, 7892, 7902, 7891, 7882, 7892, 7882, 7881... all for a final average of 7889.125]
You may have the source code/binary to test on your Windows computer (or Linux, with Mono; or BSD, with Microsoft's ROTOR)--just give me a hoot.
Someone inquired about the benchmark Java console program I created:
It's located at http://members.ij.net/javajedi
I've also included the source (FPMathTest.java) for the curious.
Kevin
That was me. :)
Thanks. See above post for my results. I even ported your Java code to C# (so similar, it scared me!) and got slightly lower numbers.
8152, 8151, 8162, 8142, 8172, 8142, 8161, 8152... all for a final average of 8154.25.
[edit: whoa, recently got 7891... running it more to average]
[edit #2: 7891, 7892, 7902, 7891, 7882, 7892, 7882, 7881... all for a final average of 7889.125]
You may have the source code/binary to test on your Windows computer (or Linux, with Mono; or BSD, with Microsoft's ROTOR)--just give me a hoot.
nixd2001
Oct 8, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by jefhatfield
one thing is certain, the athlon is faster than the duron, the pentium 4 is faster than the celeron, and the G4 is faster (in photoshop) than the G3...but beyond that, it is hard to get a perfect reading
True, but hardly going to provoke torrents of postings of heated debate and disagreement - surely a necessity in modern society :p
my overclocked 2 cents;)
So that's 2 cents of irrational exuberence then?
one thing is certain, the athlon is faster than the duron, the pentium 4 is faster than the celeron, and the G4 is faster (in photoshop) than the G3...but beyond that, it is hard to get a perfect reading
True, but hardly going to provoke torrents of postings of heated debate and disagreement - surely a necessity in modern society :p
my overclocked 2 cents;)
So that's 2 cents of irrational exuberence then?
playaj82
Jul 12, 03:20 PM
I hope for it. But only think it might be a long shot BTO option because Blu-Ray recorders are close to $1,000 so far. Even the players are almost $1,000. So this seems like an option for next year.
I also hope for a dual 5.25" external bay design.
I agree that Apple will wait on the Blu-Ray drives. Apple did jump on the BR bandwagon to support the format, but without a standard, I doubt they will call off all other bets.
Apple has a history of picking standardized I/O. Apple invented firewire (or at least licenses out the technology) and included it once it was approved by the IEEE. The same thing with their Airport technology. Once the 802.11 were decided upon, Apple released that product.
This high-def disk stuff is still too limited in its everyday usefulness. Of course there are always early adopters and people that have to have it right away, but Apple's entire pro line jeopardized by the price constraints of including a $1000 BR drive, or even having to support it, doubtful.
I also hope for a dual 5.25" external bay design.
I agree that Apple will wait on the Blu-Ray drives. Apple did jump on the BR bandwagon to support the format, but without a standard, I doubt they will call off all other bets.
Apple has a history of picking standardized I/O. Apple invented firewire (or at least licenses out the technology) and included it once it was approved by the IEEE. The same thing with their Airport technology. Once the 802.11 were decided upon, Apple released that product.
This high-def disk stuff is still too limited in its everyday usefulness. Of course there are always early adopters and people that have to have it right away, but Apple's entire pro line jeopardized by the price constraints of including a $1000 BR drive, or even having to support it, doubtful.
*LTD*
Apr 28, 08:30 AM
That's pretty much the definition of a fad.
No, that's nothing more than a shared characteristic of a "fad" and an established product.
Of course, if you consider the iPod a fad, then there's not a lot more to discuss. The iPod led to the iPod Touch, which is the foundation of the iPhone, which others then set about trying to copy.
So, we're looking at a decade-long fad that turned the industry on its head, completely changed the way we consume and acquire music - changing the face of the music industry itself, and which led to the next generation of mobile devices. This fad also continues to sell, though in lower numbers, because the other identical fad includes phone functionality and accordingly sells in record numbers each quarter.
Some fad. Most companies would trade their established products in order to get in on some of these mysterious "long-term" fads that change the face of consumer tech. Would you like it better if we call them "ultra fads" or "super fads"? :confused:
No, that's nothing more than a shared characteristic of a "fad" and an established product.
Of course, if you consider the iPod a fad, then there's not a lot more to discuss. The iPod led to the iPod Touch, which is the foundation of the iPhone, which others then set about trying to copy.
So, we're looking at a decade-long fad that turned the industry on its head, completely changed the way we consume and acquire music - changing the face of the music industry itself, and which led to the next generation of mobile devices. This fad also continues to sell, though in lower numbers, because the other identical fad includes phone functionality and accordingly sells in record numbers each quarter.
Some fad. Most companies would trade their established products in order to get in on some of these mysterious "long-term" fads that change the face of consumer tech. Would you like it better if we call them "ultra fads" or "super fads"? :confused:
ziggyonice
Apr 20, 05:25 PM
Android is to Windows, as iOS is to Mac OS.
The similarities are astounding � Google is doing the same thing Microsoft did back in the day.
As much as Apple cares about marketshare, the experience is more important to them then the product itself. That's really something.
The similarities are astounding � Google is doing the same thing Microsoft did back in the day.
As much as Apple cares about marketshare, the experience is more important to them then the product itself. That's really something.
noahtk
Apr 9, 04:16 PM
Pay off Sony for PSP ports!!!
robotfist
Apr 12, 10:24 PM
I was following the tweets, the live blogs, and a few crappy cell phone streams during this release.
Until Apple puts up their official site, it's too early to tell if the new FCP is a game changer.
Based on the description, it sounds amazing.
Based on the terrible pictures, it looks questionable.
I always go into new software releases with an open mind. I'm hoping the new FCP is as amazing as it sounds.
Whatever it is, $299 is pretty fantastic.
Until Apple puts up their official site, it's too early to tell if the new FCP is a game changer.
Based on the description, it sounds amazing.
Based on the terrible pictures, it looks questionable.
I always go into new software releases with an open mind. I'm hoping the new FCP is as amazing as it sounds.
Whatever it is, $299 is pretty fantastic.
hunkaburningluv
Apr 9, 11:17 AM
That's not what he's saying. The premise being presented is adapt/evolve or face the consequences of a rapid moving technological world. Doesn't mean the company goes out of business.
that's the thing, ninty have already shown that they can adapt and disrupt a market, they did it with the wii, the ds and they will do it with the 3DS...... they will still remain the kings of hand held gaming, primarily because the NGP will probably price itself out of the equation.
Ninty couldn't hold it's own when it came to the horsepower of the 360 and PS3 so it went in a different direction and that gamble payed off for them big time.
that's the thing, ninty have already shown that they can adapt and disrupt a market, they did it with the wii, the ds and they will do it with the 3DS...... they will still remain the kings of hand held gaming, primarily because the NGP will probably price itself out of the equation.
Ninty couldn't hold it's own when it came to the horsepower of the 360 and PS3 so it went in a different direction and that gamble payed off for them big time.
iindigo
May 2, 12:11 PM
Uh huh. And OSX doesn't ask you to manually enter a password every time you install or change something? Windows only asks you to authorize...which is technically more "annoying"?
I don't know about you, but once I have my Mac set up (apps and updates installed) about the only thing I enter my password for is to unlock the screen saver. Maybe for the occasional random app I install or when I need to change an otherwise permissions-locked file. It's not a super common thing and if a password dialog pops up for seemingly no reason it sends up a red flag.
As for which is more obnoxious, I'd have to say UAC by far. As noted previously, the user is prompted with UAC for many things you'd never see a password dialog in OS X or Linux for. This is partially because due to a design flaw in Windows, many third-party applications won't even run unless they have administrator access (silly, no?).
I actually don't know anyone who has ever disabled UAC.
Our experiences differ, then. A good half or more of the students at my college have theirs disabled. The reason always cited is, "because it was annoying".
I don't know about you, but once I have my Mac set up (apps and updates installed) about the only thing I enter my password for is to unlock the screen saver. Maybe for the occasional random app I install or when I need to change an otherwise permissions-locked file. It's not a super common thing and if a password dialog pops up for seemingly no reason it sends up a red flag.
As for which is more obnoxious, I'd have to say UAC by far. As noted previously, the user is prompted with UAC for many things you'd never see a password dialog in OS X or Linux for. This is partially because due to a design flaw in Windows, many third-party applications won't even run unless they have administrator access (silly, no?).
I actually don't know anyone who has ever disabled UAC.
Our experiences differ, then. A good half or more of the students at my college have theirs disabled. The reason always cited is, "because it was annoying".
Quu
Apr 12, 11:18 PM
Pretty awesome update in my opinion.
The Final Cut
Feb 28, 12:49 AM
Android to Surpass iPhone in Market Share by 2012?
That's the second insanely improbable hypothesis for that year:)
That's the second insanely improbable hypothesis for that year:)
Lord Blackadder
Mar 14, 06:11 PM
- Grid energy storage tech needs to advance so renewables can be integrated into base load and we can phase out fossil fuels and nuclear.
The problem with this is that I don't see any huge breakthroughs in battery technology on the horizon, and the most efficient 'battery" is still water behind a dam - or the energy contained in non-renewable sources.
We need to operate on the assumption that storage technology is not going to fundamentally improve.
The problem with this is that I don't see any huge breakthroughs in battery technology on the horizon, and the most efficient 'battery" is still water behind a dam - or the energy contained in non-renewable sources.
We need to operate on the assumption that storage technology is not going to fundamentally improve.
everettmarshall
Apr 13, 08:38 AM
Not having seen FCPX first hand I will completely withhold judgement on the app until I do.
But I will make the observation that it seems for some, the price point is what makes this app "less" pro. The fact that more people can get it and call themselves video or film editors when they are no more an editor than someone who buys a tool set at Lowe's is a mechanic.
Having the tools doesn't mean you know how to use them - but with more people having the tools thinking they do - the value of those that REALLY do can be affected if it appears that "anyone" can do it.
But I will make the observation that it seems for some, the price point is what makes this app "less" pro. The fact that more people can get it and call themselves video or film editors when they are no more an editor than someone who buys a tool set at Lowe's is a mechanic.
Having the tools doesn't mean you know how to use them - but with more people having the tools thinking they do - the value of those that REALLY do can be affected if it appears that "anyone" can do it.
manman>
Mar 18, 02:28 PM
You get what you deserve and for those of you who kept telling others about an Unlock and to suffer the consequences, KARMA.
wha?
wha?
WestonHarvey1
Apr 15, 11:46 AM
Even if this were true (and it's demonstrably not true), the whole thing is based on the completely erroneous idea that morality should be dictated by any of our holy books. We do a disservice to humanity by allowing ourselves to remain captive to these bronze age ideals of what is right and wrong.
Erroneous idea to you, but that's just like, your opinion, man.
Demonstrably not true? That's funny, I keep looking in my church bulletin for some fun anti-gay rallies or barbeques but I'm not finding them. I do find that the Catholic high school is going to have a conference on preventing anti-gay bullying, gasp! I bet they're going to pull out that old chestnut from the Catechism, "They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity."
SO MUCH HATE!
The stance itself isn't rational (i.e. based on anything empirical), so it's hard to take it seriously as anything other than "hateful" as you put it.
You know, it's pretty easy to see why some are tempted to just dig in and declare you to be an enemy to be fought at any price - after they extend an olive branch and people like you still come back accusing hate.
It is hateful to trivialize a person's identity; to claim that homosexuality is a "trial", that must be overcome. It's dehumanizing, and it's hateful.
Funny. I find you to be the second most bigoted person I've seen so far on this thread. But that's just like, my opinion.
Erroneous idea to you, but that's just like, your opinion, man.
Demonstrably not true? That's funny, I keep looking in my church bulletin for some fun anti-gay rallies or barbeques but I'm not finding them. I do find that the Catholic high school is going to have a conference on preventing anti-gay bullying, gasp! I bet they're going to pull out that old chestnut from the Catechism, "They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity."
SO MUCH HATE!
The stance itself isn't rational (i.e. based on anything empirical), so it's hard to take it seriously as anything other than "hateful" as you put it.
You know, it's pretty easy to see why some are tempted to just dig in and declare you to be an enemy to be fought at any price - after they extend an olive branch and people like you still come back accusing hate.
It is hateful to trivialize a person's identity; to claim that homosexuality is a "trial", that must be overcome. It's dehumanizing, and it's hateful.
Funny. I find you to be the second most bigoted person I've seen so far on this thread. But that's just like, my opinion.
mpstrex
Aug 30, 10:27 AM
I have to say, I am APPALLED by the irresponsible attitude of some people on this forum (and probably the world). Businesses, corporations, governments, AND individuals should all be behaving in a socially and environmentally responsible manner. This is in no way "anti-progress". When did you all gain the right to be so selfish, self-centred, and bigoted in your beliefs?
Edit: Added some more bigoted quotes.
Edit: Added a couple more gems.
Edit: One more.
Bigoted? Wow. I mean, yeah, some of those were crossing the line, but if I exercise my freedom of speech and say that many environmentalists subscribe to ideals and faith vs. facts, does that mean I'm a bigot? Jeez, I've been called worse when I say my opinions. People can say what they want; others certainly do when it comes to Conservatives and the Israelis (Nazis, Zionists, war mongers, etc.--and that's just IN the USA). I don't subscribe to hatred, but before you start labelling anyone who disagrees with your opinions and beliefs a bigot and irresponsible, think about how you're trying to stifle our freedoms of speech. Again, a few of those crossed the line, but I hope you aren't trying to stop us from talking.
Edit: Added some more bigoted quotes.
Edit: Added a couple more gems.
Edit: One more.
Bigoted? Wow. I mean, yeah, some of those were crossing the line, but if I exercise my freedom of speech and say that many environmentalists subscribe to ideals and faith vs. facts, does that mean I'm a bigot? Jeez, I've been called worse when I say my opinions. People can say what they want; others certainly do when it comes to Conservatives and the Israelis (Nazis, Zionists, war mongers, etc.--and that's just IN the USA). I don't subscribe to hatred, but before you start labelling anyone who disagrees with your opinions and beliefs a bigot and irresponsible, think about how you're trying to stifle our freedoms of speech. Again, a few of those crossed the line, but I hope you aren't trying to stop us from talking.
DeathChill
Apr 20, 10:09 PM
Outside of Apple's app and music apps, all other applications go into a saved state; i.e. not running in the background.
Uh, that's not true. Applications that don't use any of the seven (I think) multitasking API's go into a saved state; an application that uses one of those API's continues running (the particular task that the API allows).
The funny thing is that it is almost identical to Android's implementation. Unless an application is explicitly programmed to run in the background it goes into a saved state.
Uh, that's not true. Applications that don't use any of the seven (I think) multitasking API's go into a saved state; an application that uses one of those API's continues running (the particular task that the API allows).
The funny thing is that it is almost identical to Android's implementation. Unless an application is explicitly programmed to run in the background it goes into a saved state.
megadon
Oct 19, 12:59 PM
So why are people betting on the opposite to what experience tells us is true?[/B]
Economics.
Different products are marketed different ways. Different price points, and different marginal utility for each person.
The joy/benefit that you get out of the iphone (lets say touch screen for example) could be a downside to another customer, and that's just one example.
Economics.
Different products are marketed different ways. Different price points, and different marginal utility for each person.
The joy/benefit that you get out of the iphone (lets say touch screen for example) could be a downside to another customer, and that's just one example.
AidenShaw
Oct 26, 07:04 AM
Now we see what Apple saw - why the Mac Pro is strickly BTO.
Just add two more processor options for the X5355 and E5345, and this upgrade is done.
Just like the Dell online store... ;)
Just add two more processor options for the X5355 and E5345, and this upgrade is done.
Just like the Dell online store... ;)
entatlrg
Mar 13, 02:35 PM
Yea, this is one of the few controversial posts I've made here, I expected some criticism, and likely deserve it as I definitely don't get the whole picture, then again who does.
I'm not saying oil isn't a HUGE problem, or rebutting some of the good points here.
When a nuclear disaster happens hundreds of thousands of people can die, if unleashed in war it could be the end of the world, plus accidents, human error, countries letting power plants age and neglect updates not because they can't afford it but instead because they want the incredible profits from it.
It's not good, I'll never be convinced otherwise. Look at countries like Denmark and the rest of Scandinavia how well they manage their power, the research, alternative (green) energy sources in play and working NOW ... it's incredible and goes unnoticed.
There is better ways.
NO nuclear.
I'm not saying oil isn't a HUGE problem, or rebutting some of the good points here.
When a nuclear disaster happens hundreds of thousands of people can die, if unleashed in war it could be the end of the world, plus accidents, human error, countries letting power plants age and neglect updates not because they can't afford it but instead because they want the incredible profits from it.
It's not good, I'll never be convinced otherwise. Look at countries like Denmark and the rest of Scandinavia how well they manage their power, the research, alternative (green) energy sources in play and working NOW ... it's incredible and goes unnoticed.
There is better ways.
NO nuclear.
Oletros
Apr 20, 05:26 PM
It will be interesting 10 years from now to compare the number of viruses that will have occurred on android vs. iOS.
Zero on both platforms? If they exists in 2.021
Zero on both platforms? If they exists in 2.021
CTYankee
Oct 25, 10:40 PM
Each process is it's own thread. And most processes have multiple threads. Unless you only always have one program open at a time, more cores always can help speed up your system.
Open and doing something. Safari, Mail, iTunes, and working in photoshop probably won't benefit much from quad cores. Batching in PS, Aperture and doing a render in FCP would.
I am on the brink of buying something. What, time will tell. If the quad core does make a marked difference when running PS and at most one background process I'll consider it. Otherwise its a Dual core 2.66 for me.
Open and doing something. Safari, Mail, iTunes, and working in photoshop probably won't benefit much from quad cores. Batching in PS, Aperture and doing a render in FCP would.
I am on the brink of buying something. What, time will tell. If the quad core does make a marked difference when running PS and at most one background process I'll consider it. Otherwise its a Dual core 2.66 for me.
