fatfish
Aug 7, 09:35 PM
Actually - that's the exact scenario Apple talked about. HD goes down and with TIme Machine you can get all your stuff back. It backs up the system, files, apps - everything. That's almost verbatim from Apple's mouth.
I think the people who are complaining are likely using a notebook and don't permanently attach it to an external HD. I have to say I have little sympathy with this argument, if you run a notebook you need to have some back up system in place and should be prepared to regularly connect to either an external HD or a desktop.
Personally I have a little script that ensures that when I have a wireless connection to my home network an automatic incremental back up to an external HD connected to my network is performed in the background.
I did note some mention of a sync in respect of time machine, so hopefully X.5 will take care of occasional connections to an HD or desktop.
Time machine however seems to have 2 functions, restoring deleted files and full back ups. Even if you don't have access to a desktop or external HD, Time Machine will still perform retreval of lost and deleted files within a functioning notebook.
I think the people who are complaining are likely using a notebook and don't permanently attach it to an external HD. I have to say I have little sympathy with this argument, if you run a notebook you need to have some back up system in place and should be prepared to regularly connect to either an external HD or a desktop.
Personally I have a little script that ensures that when I have a wireless connection to my home network an automatic incremental back up to an external HD connected to my network is performed in the background.
I did note some mention of a sync in respect of time machine, so hopefully X.5 will take care of occasional connections to an HD or desktop.
Time machine however seems to have 2 functions, restoring deleted files and full back ups. Even if you don't have access to a desktop or external HD, Time Machine will still perform retreval of lost and deleted files within a functioning notebook.
madmax_2069
Nov 12, 05:46 PM
I'll pass on the game altogether.
What it does, Gran Turismo does to perfection....I'm just really not into what it does.
I'm more of an arcade racing guy, so I'll stick with Burnout Paradise until it gets a worthy sequel!
if you really look at it, NFS hot pursuit is the game your looking for.
i like sim and arcade racing games, but if you are a hardcore sim racing nut neither forza 3 or gt5 are real racing sims. so far only computers have real racing sims. not saying that gt5 or forza 3 aren't trying to be, its just they are not considered to be a real racing sim to hardcore sim nuts.
GT5 might be the game that makes me buy a PS3.
What it does, Gran Turismo does to perfection....I'm just really not into what it does.
I'm more of an arcade racing guy, so I'll stick with Burnout Paradise until it gets a worthy sequel!
if you really look at it, NFS hot pursuit is the game your looking for.
i like sim and arcade racing games, but if you are a hardcore sim racing nut neither forza 3 or gt5 are real racing sims. so far only computers have real racing sims. not saying that gt5 or forza 3 aren't trying to be, its just they are not considered to be a real racing sim to hardcore sim nuts.
GT5 might be the game that makes me buy a PS3.
dclocke
Sep 19, 09:43 AM
You're so wrong. Most people posting in this thread don't have a clue what 64 bit computing really means. They just think they have to have it because it's the newest thing.
That doesn't mean they think they need a 64-bit processor just so they can use a lot of RAM. I may be wrong, but the content of your post certainly doesn't justify this assertion.
That doesn't mean they think they need a 64-bit processor just so they can use a lot of RAM. I may be wrong, but the content of your post certainly doesn't justify this assertion.
skunk
Mar 1, 05:05 PM
Right, that's why England is preventing a married couple from adopting.Link, please.
mccldwll
Apr 27, 08:34 AM
I think it was not a bug, nut data waiting to be sent to Apple for profit generating purposes.
Well........in Full of's case, nut data certainly was accurate.
Well........in Full of's case, nut data certainly was accurate.
LanPhantom
Mar 31, 02:35 PM
The biggest advantage always given for Android over iOS is that it's "open source." Well, clearly that's not the case anymore. So, I can't think of any other reason to use Android over iOS, or even Windows 7. It looks like junk, and it's just a cheap ripoff of iOS.
I've been wanting to say this for a very long time. Google's OS has no advantage over iOS. You could even say it has a disadvantage. Having to create a vanilla code base that needs to function on multiple pieces of hardware is complex, more complexity creates weaker system.
But here's my point. The ONLY ONLY reason why Android market share is anywhere near what it is today is because of the Buy One Get One options at most phone retailers. iOS has NEVER done that and hopefully never will. If you didn't care about the phone or service but needed two "Newer Smart Phones" one for you and one for your wife, why not go with the "Blah Blah" model from Verizon where if I buy one today I get the second for free (two year agreement and activation fees required).
Market share means nothing. This platform is doomed unless Google reins it in and get control over it. If they do, providers will be less willing to work with them, if they don't, by by Android.
My Two Cents.
-LanPhantom
I've been wanting to say this for a very long time. Google's OS has no advantage over iOS. You could even say it has a disadvantage. Having to create a vanilla code base that needs to function on multiple pieces of hardware is complex, more complexity creates weaker system.
But here's my point. The ONLY ONLY reason why Android market share is anywhere near what it is today is because of the Buy One Get One options at most phone retailers. iOS has NEVER done that and hopefully never will. If you didn't care about the phone or service but needed two "Newer Smart Phones" one for you and one for your wife, why not go with the "Blah Blah" model from Verizon where if I buy one today I get the second for free (two year agreement and activation fees required).
Market share means nothing. This platform is doomed unless Google reins it in and get control over it. If they do, providers will be less willing to work with them, if they don't, by by Android.
My Two Cents.
-LanPhantom
steadysignal
Apr 8, 07:16 AM
Screwing around is how they lost Macs in the first place. They wanted to only sell certain iMac Colors and Apple said you can sell what we send or not at all, that's why Apple left them in the first place years ago. Then they cam back with the "store in a store" concept.
new information for me. did not know that BB sold :apple: product in the past. i had thought the store in a store thing was BBs first foray.
i don't understand why apple would have issues with BB - isn't more exposure good? or is this just a matter of any attention (good or bad) is good?
new information for me. did not know that BB sold :apple: product in the past. i had thought the store in a store thing was BBs first foray.
i don't understand why apple would have issues with BB - isn't more exposure good? or is this just a matter of any attention (good or bad) is good?
swingerofbirch
Aug 26, 07:39 PM
I hope they use Conroe in the iMac over Merom. Conroe is faster than Merom at cheaper prices. But it would mean more hardware tweaking that plopping a Merom
in there.
in there.
grue
Apr 11, 06:29 AM
Well, I can say this much:
I don't care if they change the interface, because if the new version doesn't fix the LONGSTANDING issues with FCP, my post house is dumping FCP and moving to Avid and I'll have to get used to a new interface anyway.
Sick of bad file handling, sick of flawed roundtripping, sick of crappy multicore support, sick of flaky-as-hell Qmaster, sick of stupid little idiosyncrasies that make sense to nobody I've ever spoken to in the industry.
Apple needs to get their crap in gear or they're going to lose a lot of their FCP install base, not many places are happy with it anymore. I'm sure the idiot fanboys will buy it no matter what, but people like myself (who actually make a living and want reliable, efficient software) are ready to leave.
I don't care if they change the interface, because if the new version doesn't fix the LONGSTANDING issues with FCP, my post house is dumping FCP and moving to Avid and I'll have to get used to a new interface anyway.
Sick of bad file handling, sick of flawed roundtripping, sick of crappy multicore support, sick of flaky-as-hell Qmaster, sick of stupid little idiosyncrasies that make sense to nobody I've ever spoken to in the industry.
Apple needs to get their crap in gear or they're going to lose a lot of their FCP install base, not many places are happy with it anymore. I'm sure the idiot fanboys will buy it no matter what, but people like myself (who actually make a living and want reliable, efficient software) are ready to leave.
MrNomNoms
Mar 26, 03:57 AM
I use my computer as a "real computer" and I like virtually every change I've seen. I wish people wouldn't generalize so broadly and presume that because certain additions aren't something that they use that it has nothing to do with "real work."
Why shouldn't they be related? Borrowing concepts and sharing library isn't the same as being merged. The only people who honestly believe the OSes are being merged into one are the paranoid people on this forum.
Unless I'm missing something, Mission Control is added in addition to Expos� as it is now. The old functionality will still be there. As for it being "ruined," a couple of days before the Lion preview the graphic artist I work with most was describing changes he wished they'd make to Expos� and we were laughing together a few days later when we watched the preview and boom, there it was. Incidentally, he makes his living off what he does with his "real" computer.
Cool. Don't use "full screen apps." However, they make a lot of sense in a few places. Paired with Spaces I'm looking forward to this when working on my laptop without an external monitor. Also, on a multimonitor setup it makes a lot of sense.
Again, don't do any of it. I've been using Steam for my games on the PC basically since CounterStrike: Condition Zero was released. It's awesome. I was thrilled with the AppStore for similar reasons. It's just convenient. However, it's not the only distribution method available for software so its existence doesn't impede you.
I also use my trackpad when using my computer like a desktop and love having my Expos� gestures there.
What's being dumbed down exactly? Ease of use is very different than "dumbing down." Workflows that aren't what one particular individual likes are not "dumb." There are plenty of UNIX fanatics that think people using anything but CLI for half their workflow are using "dumbed down" interfaces. They're wrong and they're annoying.
Launchpad is, in my opinion, the lamest and most unnecessary addition to Lion. However, it's so minor that I don't care. I know some people will really like it. I am not personally offended by the inclusion of a feature I don't use or care about either.
The vast majority of people using computers are not techies, pros or developers. They're people like my parents. As a developer, I'm generally more excited about a new release of XCode than I am about OS X because overall, it's going to affect what I do far more than the OS will.
If they merge in the sense that the Mac becomes as locked down as an iPhone, I agree that that's it on Macs and even if they don't die in the market from Apple's would be hubris I'll be leaving Apple for something else. Thankfully, this will only occur if most of Apple's leadership is replaced with an army of complete morons.
Really, my point is this: you don't have to like these features. However, that doesn't mean they're not useful. It doesn't mean that they're "dumbed down." It doesn't mean "pros" won't like them. It doesn't mean people who like them don't use their computer as a "real computer" and instead treat it as a "toy." It means you don't like them.
Thank you for your constructive reply but I have a feeling it will all fall on deaf ears given that most have never actually gone on Google and researched what has been added/changed/enhanced to Mac OS X Lion. For example SAMBA has been removed and completely replaced with a ground up clean room implementation of SMB2 which will translate into better support for Windows Vista and 7 clients as well as the latest versions of Windows. Why hasn't that been mentioned by the nay sayers here?
OpenGL 3.2 has been added and funny enough not a single thing has been said about the fact that it lays the foundation for future updates that will be more prompt.
Then there is Webkit2 based web browser whose knock on effects go well beyond Safari and into applications wishing to utilise web based technologies with framework that provides said functionality but handles all the mundane security/process isolation/etc behind the scenes.
The merging of AV Foundation that serves as the foundation for future development for media products that will span iOS and Mac OS X; that you can have the same media core on iOS and Mac OS X then build upon it to differentiate between the desktop and tablet version by having a different interface, more features on the desktop version etc.
Sandboxing is being enhanced further and more system components are being put into it as to reduce the security exposure when a bug is found.
I'm sure others can note even more enhancements but it is frustrating when I hear the same nauseating ignorance over and over again from the cheap seats screaming there are no new features and yet they've done zero in the way of researching and reading on the matter.
Why shouldn't they be related? Borrowing concepts and sharing library isn't the same as being merged. The only people who honestly believe the OSes are being merged into one are the paranoid people on this forum.
Unless I'm missing something, Mission Control is added in addition to Expos� as it is now. The old functionality will still be there. As for it being "ruined," a couple of days before the Lion preview the graphic artist I work with most was describing changes he wished they'd make to Expos� and we were laughing together a few days later when we watched the preview and boom, there it was. Incidentally, he makes his living off what he does with his "real" computer.
Cool. Don't use "full screen apps." However, they make a lot of sense in a few places. Paired with Spaces I'm looking forward to this when working on my laptop without an external monitor. Also, on a multimonitor setup it makes a lot of sense.
Again, don't do any of it. I've been using Steam for my games on the PC basically since CounterStrike: Condition Zero was released. It's awesome. I was thrilled with the AppStore for similar reasons. It's just convenient. However, it's not the only distribution method available for software so its existence doesn't impede you.
I also use my trackpad when using my computer like a desktop and love having my Expos� gestures there.
What's being dumbed down exactly? Ease of use is very different than "dumbing down." Workflows that aren't what one particular individual likes are not "dumb." There are plenty of UNIX fanatics that think people using anything but CLI for half their workflow are using "dumbed down" interfaces. They're wrong and they're annoying.
Launchpad is, in my opinion, the lamest and most unnecessary addition to Lion. However, it's so minor that I don't care. I know some people will really like it. I am not personally offended by the inclusion of a feature I don't use or care about either.
The vast majority of people using computers are not techies, pros or developers. They're people like my parents. As a developer, I'm generally more excited about a new release of XCode than I am about OS X because overall, it's going to affect what I do far more than the OS will.
If they merge in the sense that the Mac becomes as locked down as an iPhone, I agree that that's it on Macs and even if they don't die in the market from Apple's would be hubris I'll be leaving Apple for something else. Thankfully, this will only occur if most of Apple's leadership is replaced with an army of complete morons.
Really, my point is this: you don't have to like these features. However, that doesn't mean they're not useful. It doesn't mean that they're "dumbed down." It doesn't mean "pros" won't like them. It doesn't mean people who like them don't use their computer as a "real computer" and instead treat it as a "toy." It means you don't like them.
Thank you for your constructive reply but I have a feeling it will all fall on deaf ears given that most have never actually gone on Google and researched what has been added/changed/enhanced to Mac OS X Lion. For example SAMBA has been removed and completely replaced with a ground up clean room implementation of SMB2 which will translate into better support for Windows Vista and 7 clients as well as the latest versions of Windows. Why hasn't that been mentioned by the nay sayers here?
OpenGL 3.2 has been added and funny enough not a single thing has been said about the fact that it lays the foundation for future updates that will be more prompt.
Then there is Webkit2 based web browser whose knock on effects go well beyond Safari and into applications wishing to utilise web based technologies with framework that provides said functionality but handles all the mundane security/process isolation/etc behind the scenes.
The merging of AV Foundation that serves as the foundation for future development for media products that will span iOS and Mac OS X; that you can have the same media core on iOS and Mac OS X then build upon it to differentiate between the desktop and tablet version by having a different interface, more features on the desktop version etc.
Sandboxing is being enhanced further and more system components are being put into it as to reduce the security exposure when a bug is found.
I'm sure others can note even more enhancements but it is frustrating when I hear the same nauseating ignorance over and over again from the cheap seats screaming there are no new features and yet they've done zero in the way of researching and reading on the matter.
likemyorbs
Mar 18, 01:58 AM
The ultimate goal of the anti-religious elites is to transform America into a completely secular nation, a nation that is legally and culturally biased against Christianity. � Ron Paul
Uhhh....didn't america become a fully secular nation a few centuries ago? pretty sure i grew up in a secular nation. america is NOT a christian nation, never was, and definitely never will be. As for the second part about being biased against christianity, that's just too unintelligent and ignorant to respond too, i wouldn't even know where to begin. The day we start taxing churches, but not other religious houses of worship, is the day we become biased against christianity. personally i don't think religious organizations should be tax exempt. We can totally fix the deficit just by taxing the catholic church alone...
Uhhh....didn't america become a fully secular nation a few centuries ago? pretty sure i grew up in a secular nation. america is NOT a christian nation, never was, and definitely never will be. As for the second part about being biased against christianity, that's just too unintelligent and ignorant to respond too, i wouldn't even know where to begin. The day we start taxing churches, but not other religious houses of worship, is the day we become biased against christianity. personally i don't think religious organizations should be tax exempt. We can totally fix the deficit just by taxing the catholic church alone...
zacman
Apr 19, 02:34 PM
Sigh. The iPhone is still gaining market share. Not losing market share.
You're wrong. Apple is losing marketshare for over 2 years now. Just because they are selling MORE iPhones doesn't mean they are gaining marketshare. The market grows much faster than the iPhone sales. Have a look at Nokia: In Q4/10 Nokia sold almost 7 million more smartphones but they lost about 10% marketshare. In Q1/11 Apple lost about 2% marketshare despite the fact that they sold about 2.5 million more iPhones. Just read the latest GfK numbers (needs registered account), it's all in there. NDP numbers for Q1/11 will be released next week if you trust them more.
You're wrong. Apple is losing marketshare for over 2 years now. Just because they are selling MORE iPhones doesn't mean they are gaining marketshare. The market grows much faster than the iPhone sales. Have a look at Nokia: In Q4/10 Nokia sold almost 7 million more smartphones but they lost about 10% marketshare. In Q1/11 Apple lost about 2% marketshare despite the fact that they sold about 2.5 million more iPhones. Just read the latest GfK numbers (needs registered account), it's all in there. NDP numbers for Q1/11 will be released next week if you trust them more.
drumpat01
Aug 25, 02:47 PM
I tried to type in my battery serial number only to have it say it was invalid even though I fell with in the given range of serial numbers. So I called Apple and after waiting on hold for about 20min they said I WAS VALID! So I dont know whats going on, but if you seem to be having the same problem you should DEFINITELY call them and double check your battery serial number.
Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 03:07 PM
MS Windows has about 95% of the world market...doesn't mean the technology is better.:)
There is a huge difference between an OS and a cellphone standard. Having two cellphone standards is like having two internets. You as a customer have no idea weather you use CDMA or GSM. I dont know about you, but I use my cell for talking end send/receive data. I dont give a rats ass whether this done through code division or time division...
There is a huge difference between an OS and a cellphone standard. Having two cellphone standards is like having two internets. You as a customer have no idea weather you use CDMA or GSM. I dont know about you, but I use my cell for talking end send/receive data. I dont give a rats ass whether this done through code division or time division...
mark!
Aug 11, 05:57 PM
These rumors have been going for so long. Since right? 3 Years is a lot for technology.
But atleast we know they can't be just sitting there. With both the nano, and iPod with video being almost 1 year old, they can't just be sitting there. :)
Just gimme a new iPod & "iPhone". :)
But atleast we know they can't be just sitting there. With both the nano, and iPod with video being almost 1 year old, they can't just be sitting there. :)
Just gimme a new iPod & "iPhone". :)
Billy Boo Bob
Aug 6, 08:38 PM
It won't be a live video stream. In the afternoon Apple will begin streaming a compressed HD recording of it.
I wish they would provide a full QT file download, like the movie trailers. Even if it isn't HD, but just the standard QT. Sure the file would be large, but they could BitTorrent it. Make a standalone app that uses BT, but will only download that one single file. You wouldn't even have to know that BT was under the hood... Just that you were downloading at near peak speeds (depending on when you actually grab the file).
I wish they would provide a full QT file download, like the movie trailers. Even if it isn't HD, but just the standard QT. Sure the file would be large, but they could BitTorrent it. Make a standalone app that uses BT, but will only download that one single file. You wouldn't even have to know that BT was under the hood... Just that you were downloading at near peak speeds (depending on when you actually grab the file).
generik
Sep 19, 02:57 AM
1. It's Merom. Not Memrom, Menron, Memron or even L. Ron.
2. It won't be any cooler and it won't have greater battery life, period. Unless Apple has an amazing new design in store.
3. If you really, really, need a Merom, you should wait until the Santa Rosa platform so you don't complain that you got the inferior Merom. :rolleyes:
That is all.
These kinds of arguments are always lame.
1. People have lifes, not everyone is as much as a geek as you to know exactly how many transistors are in the next Intel processor. That is a code name by the way, Steve is not going to step up and go "Merom Macbook Pros!" on stage. He will look like a Moron.
2. So? Who is Apple to tell me how much of an improvement I should expect from something? When's the last time you seen Ford advertise "05 Ford Falcon! Fuel efficiency lags behind competing models by under 10%, same old reliable Ford Falcon with 2 year old design, still at same old price of $19,999"
If there is even so much as 0.001% of improvement you are gonna see Steve step up onto the keynote like a lappy dog and brag it to sound like it is greater than the 2nd coming of Jesus. That's sales 101 for you.
3. Meroms support 64 bit code. 64 bit code like Leopard (although we don't know for sure), or code like Vista x64 (that is 100% for sure). Sure, you might not mind running things in half arsed modes like some Frankinstein hybrid 32/64 bit system like Tiger is, but some people might actually *gasp* appreciate the ability to judge 64 bit code. Get off your high horse already, if you disagree just keep it to yourself. Not like your arrogant rants contributed anything either.
2. It won't be any cooler and it won't have greater battery life, period. Unless Apple has an amazing new design in store.
3. If you really, really, need a Merom, you should wait until the Santa Rosa platform so you don't complain that you got the inferior Merom. :rolleyes:
That is all.
These kinds of arguments are always lame.
1. People have lifes, not everyone is as much as a geek as you to know exactly how many transistors are in the next Intel processor. That is a code name by the way, Steve is not going to step up and go "Merom Macbook Pros!" on stage. He will look like a Moron.
2. So? Who is Apple to tell me how much of an improvement I should expect from something? When's the last time you seen Ford advertise "05 Ford Falcon! Fuel efficiency lags behind competing models by under 10%, same old reliable Ford Falcon with 2 year old design, still at same old price of $19,999"
If there is even so much as 0.001% of improvement you are gonna see Steve step up onto the keynote like a lappy dog and brag it to sound like it is greater than the 2nd coming of Jesus. That's sales 101 for you.
3. Meroms support 64 bit code. 64 bit code like Leopard (although we don't know for sure), or code like Vista x64 (that is 100% for sure). Sure, you might not mind running things in half arsed modes like some Frankinstein hybrid 32/64 bit system like Tiger is, but some people might actually *gasp* appreciate the ability to judge 64 bit code. Get off your high horse already, if you disagree just keep it to yourself. Not like your arrogant rants contributed anything either.
Xeperu
Mar 22, 01:06 PM
My take on this.
The good:
1. Great specs
2. Great price
3. Great form factor
The Bad:
1. Looks plastic fantastic
2. Android (as in: bad ecosystem)
My verdict:
No thanks, I prefer the guarantee for fresh apps and business support that iOS provides me.
The good:
1. Great specs
2. Great price
3. Great form factor
The Bad:
1. Looks plastic fantastic
2. Android (as in: bad ecosystem)
My verdict:
No thanks, I prefer the guarantee for fresh apps and business support that iOS provides me.
sgibson
Mar 31, 02:38 PM
You keep using that word� (http://cl.ly/0X032o272d2a3G1T1K3D)
"posttop">
iMikeT
Apr 7, 10:22 PM
Having once worked for BB, their behavior in this matter does not surprise me. They got what was coming to them.
~Shard~
Aug 25, 04:29 PM
the vocal minority are always the ones who have problems :rolleyes:
So in other words, the squeaky wheel gets the grease? ;)
So in other words, the squeaky wheel gets the grease? ;)
furi0usbee
Mar 26, 06:48 PM
Windows manages to run legacy apps still. Even if you do have to resort to using the virtual machine they've called 'XP Mode.'
Because Windows is bloatware. I don't want my Mac OS to be able to run **** 10 years old. This only hampers innovation by having to spend time making sure all the old stuff doesn't break. Move on my friend. I can probably use XP to print to a 15 year old dot matrix printer.
Because Windows is bloatware. I don't want my Mac OS to be able to run **** 10 years old. This only hampers innovation by having to spend time making sure all the old stuff doesn't break. Move on my friend. I can probably use XP to print to a 15 year old dot matrix printer.
NoSmokingBandit
Dec 3, 05:00 PM
I got a prize car for getting all golds in Beginner and Amateur categories. I dont remember what it was, but i recall that when i got my last gold in each bracket they gave me a car for completing the whole thing.
I've started rally a bit today while i save up for a car with a bit more balls. Rally is completely sublime. I am loving every second of it. I had no problem with the dirt and snow tracks, but the tarmac rally is giving me some trouble. I use an 06 Focus ST that is around 215hp, so i can bump up the HP and still compete in the series. I might just have to do that.
I've started rally a bit today while i save up for a car with a bit more balls. Rally is completely sublime. I am loving every second of it. I had no problem with the dirt and snow tracks, but the tarmac rally is giving me some trouble. I use an 06 Focus ST that is around 215hp, so i can bump up the HP and still compete in the series. I might just have to do that.
leekohler
Feb 28, 09:24 PM
I do not know the cause, it appears scientists do not either. Since no one appears to know, what could you possibly have expected from me?
Well, then why do expect us to explain it to you? Why do you expect us to justify who we are? We are who we are and we have just as much to offer the world as you do. We have families, talents and love just like anyone else. Love is rare. Why would you deny that to two adults who truly care about each other? To me, that's sick and disgusting. Keep your religion to yourself. Wallow in it's BS as much as you want. But keep it out of our lives.
Well, then why do expect us to explain it to you? Why do you expect us to justify who we are? We are who we are and we have just as much to offer the world as you do. We have families, talents and love just like anyone else. Love is rare. Why would you deny that to two adults who truly care about each other? To me, that's sick and disgusting. Keep your religion to yourself. Wallow in it's BS as much as you want. But keep it out of our lives.
