NAG
Apr 27, 08:50 AM
And here I thought that data wasn't sent to Apple? At least they encrypted it so that you can't tell what actually is sent.
Edit:
But really, they are doing the right thing by truncating the size, removing it from files being backuped, and encrypting the file.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the wasn't sent argument was short for wasn't sent to Apple to track you personally. You're always sending out some sort of location data whether it be your IP or the wifi data. This was announced as a feature back when they first showed of location tracking on the iPhone (so you can't say it was secret). I guess the assumption was that people would remember context of what was said before. The context was that we knew about the anonymous wifi data and people were claiming location database on the phone was being used by Apple to track people personally (the 3rd party local access as a reasonable concern although a bit unlikely). I guess we should have been more explicit in and hoped people try to understand context instead of only becoming irrationally angry at the words "location". Oh well.
Oh, and I like how people are claiming the non-encryption was said by Apple to be a bug and then acting incredulous. Yeah, that tends to happen when you make something up. The only thing that was a bug was the cache not getting culled over time or deleted completely when location services is off. Encryption is a new feature (that arguably should have been there to start) and the file being backed up was probably an oversight. I have no idea how Apple handles their audits but they should probably look into it since they messed up here and only addressed it after we got yet another "-gate" in the media. (Do they even have a fence at this point or is it just a bunch of gates? Maybe they should make a "-gate" for that.) Informing people is, of course, good. However hysterics and hyperbole don't really do a very good job of that.
Edit:
But really, they are doing the right thing by truncating the size, removing it from files being backuped, and encrypting the file.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the wasn't sent argument was short for wasn't sent to Apple to track you personally. You're always sending out some sort of location data whether it be your IP or the wifi data. This was announced as a feature back when they first showed of location tracking on the iPhone (so you can't say it was secret). I guess the assumption was that people would remember context of what was said before. The context was that we knew about the anonymous wifi data and people were claiming location database on the phone was being used by Apple to track people personally (the 3rd party local access as a reasonable concern although a bit unlikely). I guess we should have been more explicit in and hoped people try to understand context instead of only becoming irrationally angry at the words "location". Oh well.
Oh, and I like how people are claiming the non-encryption was said by Apple to be a bug and then acting incredulous. Yeah, that tends to happen when you make something up. The only thing that was a bug was the cache not getting culled over time or deleted completely when location services is off. Encryption is a new feature (that arguably should have been there to start) and the file being backed up was probably an oversight. I have no idea how Apple handles their audits but they should probably look into it since they messed up here and only addressed it after we got yet another "-gate" in the media. (Do they even have a fence at this point or is it just a bunch of gates? Maybe they should make a "-gate" for that.) Informing people is, of course, good. However hysterics and hyperbole don't really do a very good job of that.
Kranchammer
Mar 31, 06:24 PM
I would add I never understand the comparison of Smartphones running Android to smartphones running IOS.
Neither Google or Apple sell their phone operating systems, and the Android spectrum is made up of 50 handsets from 10 different manufacturers who are in direct competition with each other. They are not one big group working together to take on Apple. It makes absolutely zero sense to make that kind of comparison.
It is just as weird as loping off iPod and iPad IOS users...
If people want to compare smartphones, then compare actual sales of individual smartphones, each which only use one OS. People should not draw meaningless lines in the sand lumping all android based handsets together, because they are not together other than they run android. They might as well compare black phones to white phones.
I imagine if you made a chart of the top selling smartphones in the last 5 years, it would consist of the iPhone 4, the iPhone 3GS, the iPhone 3G and the iPhone.
Why not group smartphones by what kind of graphics chip they have or what type of memory chip they use? The OS is irrelevant. Nobody in the smartphone business is directly making money off any of these oses, it is a stupid way to categorize smart phones.
Of course it happens because if they didn't lump them together it would look absurd with Apple totally dominating the smart phone market with their latest phone every year while 100 android commodity phones all have tiny market shares just to get replaced by the next one.
How does HTC running android OS benefit or relate to a Motorola phone running android? It does not, at all.
Hey, you! No rationality allowed in this here thread. Vitriol, stereotypes, and blanket generalizations only!
Shame on you. ;)
Neither Google or Apple sell their phone operating systems, and the Android spectrum is made up of 50 handsets from 10 different manufacturers who are in direct competition with each other. They are not one big group working together to take on Apple. It makes absolutely zero sense to make that kind of comparison.
It is just as weird as loping off iPod and iPad IOS users...
If people want to compare smartphones, then compare actual sales of individual smartphones, each which only use one OS. People should not draw meaningless lines in the sand lumping all android based handsets together, because they are not together other than they run android. They might as well compare black phones to white phones.
I imagine if you made a chart of the top selling smartphones in the last 5 years, it would consist of the iPhone 4, the iPhone 3GS, the iPhone 3G and the iPhone.
Why not group smartphones by what kind of graphics chip they have or what type of memory chip they use? The OS is irrelevant. Nobody in the smartphone business is directly making money off any of these oses, it is a stupid way to categorize smart phones.
Of course it happens because if they didn't lump them together it would look absurd with Apple totally dominating the smart phone market with their latest phone every year while 100 android commodity phones all have tiny market shares just to get replaced by the next one.
How does HTC running android OS benefit or relate to a Motorola phone running android? It does not, at all.
Hey, you! No rationality allowed in this here thread. Vitriol, stereotypes, and blanket generalizations only!
Shame on you. ;)
skunk
Aug 6, 01:48 PM
good catch - I still think it won't matter...But it would be impossibly risky to give the machines a name which might be disallowed.
voiceofreason23
Apr 11, 12:24 PM
Hi
With all the Android phones coming out and manufacturers having no specific cycle, the iPhone is really out of date already!
iPhone 1 - 2G
iPhone 2 - adds 3G
iPhone 3 - adds 3GS
Therefore the above three phones are all 'old' regarding what was released around the same time.
iPhone 4 - will be about 18 months old by the time the iPhone 5 comes out.
People will loose interest in Apple iPhones with so many other new releases coming out on a regular basis.
I agree. My 3Gs contract runs out in June and was looking forward to jumping to Verizon with the iPhone 5. I really hope it still comes out in June. If not, I'll just jump to Verizon and the iPhone 4 and buy it at Best Buy with the Buy Back program on it.
With all the Android phones coming out and manufacturers having no specific cycle, the iPhone is really out of date already!
iPhone 1 - 2G
iPhone 2 - adds 3G
iPhone 3 - adds 3GS
Therefore the above three phones are all 'old' regarding what was released around the same time.
iPhone 4 - will be about 18 months old by the time the iPhone 5 comes out.
People will loose interest in Apple iPhones with so many other new releases coming out on a regular basis.
I agree. My 3Gs contract runs out in June and was looking forward to jumping to Verizon with the iPhone 5. I really hope it still comes out in June. If not, I'll just jump to Verizon and the iPhone 4 and buy it at Best Buy with the Buy Back program on it.
JAT
Apr 20, 12:15 PM
Not at all. I'm only showing where Apple has done what they don't like being done to them. Only a die hard defends them at all cost.
No, only an irrational person defends them at all cost. A die hard is one who puts up with occasional mistakes in the products.
Did threads just get merged again? Because the last dozen posts are complete rehashes of earlier posts.
No, only an irrational person defends them at all cost. A die hard is one who puts up with occasional mistakes in the products.
Did threads just get merged again? Because the last dozen posts are complete rehashes of earlier posts.
pdjudd
Mar 31, 03:18 PM
The Motorola Xoom ships with Honeycomb. It has been released. You miss that???
The source hasn't been released. It's the source code that people are talking about. The source code that Google has always released up till now.
The source hasn't been released. It's the source code that people are talking about. The source code that Google has always released up till now.
Multimedia
Aug 18, 10:31 AM
If one were to buy a mac pro now, is the processor upgradeable to Clovertown in the future, or is that not really worth it even if it is, because you would need a faster FSB, meaning a new logic board, to take advantage of its power?I'm sure you know this. But just a reminder that you would be dealing with an extremely fragile and tricky upgrade process that could destroy your motherboard or fry the processor without the latest cooling system from Apple. Just my own caution against attempting this. Not worth the risk I think. There will be a better video card with the Dual Clovertown Mac Pro as well as other changes to the system fixing bugs discovered between now and then. Too many changes in the works for me to want to fool with such a complex system.
LegendKillerUK
Apr 11, 01:01 PM
I don't understand - you can't "add" 3GS, because 3GS is not a data network. 2G and 3G is� the S in the iPhone 3Gs simply stood for "speed", because it was faster than the iPhone 3G.
"the 3GS also adds support for 7.2 Mbit/s HSDPA allowing faster downlink speeds"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_3GS
Technically he's right.
"the 3GS also adds support for 7.2 Mbit/s HSDPA allowing faster downlink speeds"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_3GS
Technically he's right.
jeffereyj
Apr 6, 01:12 PM
sorry but if you're trying to do "pro" work on a MBA, ur doin it wrong.
i'm glad Apple has their MBA line for ultra-portability, plus the MBP line for intensive portable work.
i'm glad Apple has their MBA line for ultra-portability, plus the MBP line for intensive portable work.
BRLawyer
Aug 27, 10:43 AM
Especially the last paragraph of your rebuttal shows that you have not read ALL the threads about MB and MBp problems. I really would like to hear you, when you had your MBP replaced 3 times and still have problems... I have friends who just upgraded to MBPs all have one or more problems, ranging from screen, heat, whine, keyboard, and other problems, some of which they still have to discover. Sorry, buddy, but it truly looks like getting a good MBP is LUCK. I own a couple of laptops, my oldest ones are 9 years old (TOSHIBA), and never ever did I have problems like the ones described on these boards.
Proof my butt.... Wouldn"t it be nice if these threads had only happy APPLE fans? Dream on.
We are consumers, and should not accept getting a refurb lemon... but a new, preferably working product.
Well, it seems like you are the one having hard feelings...so chill out, since we all try to be polite in this forum...otherwise, just go visit some other place where you can vent your anger on people.
As I said above, I am talking about facts and statistics...I am sure there a few cases where guys are just unlucky and receive one lemon after another...but this does NOT represent a trend nor a relevant percentage. You must have this impression because you go to an Apple Support forum and see 100 posts complaining the hell out of it...you just fail, and fail badly, to realize that there are some 1,000,000 users out there with no problems at all.
Anyway, before you start babbling again, check the link below...these are FACTS, not whines.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2006502,00.asp
So please, before you spit out some fire, bring me some real facts, like percentage of failures and so on...the report I've read above shows Apple as having the LOWEST repair rate and HIGHEST trust of all makers. This, for me, is relevant; not random screams in Mac forums.
Proof my butt.... Wouldn"t it be nice if these threads had only happy APPLE fans? Dream on.
We are consumers, and should not accept getting a refurb lemon... but a new, preferably working product.
Well, it seems like you are the one having hard feelings...so chill out, since we all try to be polite in this forum...otherwise, just go visit some other place where you can vent your anger on people.
As I said above, I am talking about facts and statistics...I am sure there a few cases where guys are just unlucky and receive one lemon after another...but this does NOT represent a trend nor a relevant percentage. You must have this impression because you go to an Apple Support forum and see 100 posts complaining the hell out of it...you just fail, and fail badly, to realize that there are some 1,000,000 users out there with no problems at all.
Anyway, before you start babbling again, check the link below...these are FACTS, not whines.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2006502,00.asp
So please, before you spit out some fire, bring me some real facts, like percentage of failures and so on...the report I've read above shows Apple as having the LOWEST repair rate and HIGHEST trust of all makers. This, for me, is relevant; not random screams in Mac forums.
shawnce
Aug 7, 09:42 PM
Running the preview now... some nice developer level stuff that I cannot ebelish on however beyond what was talked about in the keynote.
The new Core Animation stuff looks simple yet powerful and will increase the visual effects and feedback that application can do with only minor work on their part.
Also new Xcode Tool capabilities are well... great to have (need to review what is available publicly before I can comment more).
Next spring Apple will have a good answer to Vista with little disruption to end users and developers (unlike Vista).
The new Core Animation stuff looks simple yet powerful and will increase the visual effects and feedback that application can do with only minor work on their part.
Also new Xcode Tool capabilities are well... great to have (need to review what is available publicly before I can comment more).
Next spring Apple will have a good answer to Vista with little disruption to end users and developers (unlike Vista).
sjo
Aug 11, 04:09 PM
I have three subscriptions. Two in europe, one in US. How does that count?
Yeah, I've got several as well, if I spend more than two weeks in another country or visit there frequently I tend to get local subscription. Much more convenient to stay connected with the locals. This way I help more and more countries to get over the 100% treshold as well :rolleyes:
Yeah, I've got several as well, if I spend more than two weeks in another country or visit there frequently I tend to get local subscription. Much more convenient to stay connected with the locals. This way I help more and more countries to get over the 100% treshold as well :rolleyes:
Sikh
Apr 11, 01:03 PM
Ive had my 3GS since launch and my contract will end same date in june i got my phone.
I was hoping to wait MAYBE a month or 2, but if this holds up true, and they dont tell us at WDDC, they just expect us to wait, I will GLADLY go with a HTC Dual Core Android or Samsung Galaxy Dual Core Android because my 3GS is @ 512 cycles and its barely starting to hold 7 hours anymore, I need a new phone but Im waiting.
Also whats ironic is, apple care ends at the same time, and I was hoping that apple would keep the 2 year cycle going so every 2 years you just "rotate" out. Dad had a 3G, next year I got a 3GS, next year he got a 4, this year I was gonna get a 5. If they **** up that cycle, ill call it quits on Apple.
I love the iPhone, but im not going 2 1/2 years with a phone that wont hold a charge in a few months.
They better give us an explanation, or im done with apple.
I was hoping to wait MAYBE a month or 2, but if this holds up true, and they dont tell us at WDDC, they just expect us to wait, I will GLADLY go with a HTC Dual Core Android or Samsung Galaxy Dual Core Android because my 3GS is @ 512 cycles and its barely starting to hold 7 hours anymore, I need a new phone but Im waiting.
Also whats ironic is, apple care ends at the same time, and I was hoping that apple would keep the 2 year cycle going so every 2 years you just "rotate" out. Dad had a 3G, next year I got a 3GS, next year he got a 4, this year I was gonna get a 5. If they **** up that cycle, ill call it quits on Apple.
I love the iPhone, but im not going 2 1/2 years with a phone that wont hold a charge in a few months.
They better give us an explanation, or im done with apple.
bibbz
Jun 9, 10:34 AM
I have a few quick questions for anybody that works at Radio Shack:
I plan on going into a Radio Shack store on Tuesday to look into Appraising my iPhone. Do I need the Original Box? I have the Accessories and the books that came with my iPhone, but don't have the box.
nope, just the phone :)
Also can I just get an Appraisal without having to agree to it? and
Does my phone have to be resorted to factory setting and my info wiped off if I'm just going in for an Appraisal?
yes, we log in and appraise it, then you can either agree or decline. just tell them you are wanting to know for the launch. It's after you say "ok sounds good" that we start the actual point of sale process. The phone doesnt have to be wiped, just no passcode.
If I decide to go along with the Appraisal and Pre Order an iPhone 4 does the store take my iPhone that day? Or do I keep it until I get the iPhone 4?
You will want to do the trade in when you pick the phone up. We havent got official word on the preorder process for the iphone 4 but if its like the evo, it will work like this...
You pay $50 and we give you a gift card for that ammout and a reservation. When you come in to pick up your (example) $199 phone we apply the $50 ngift card making it 149 you pay right then, then we do the trade in and take that ammount off the 149. :)
I was also wondering if it makes any difference in the appraisal if the phone is a Refurbished or not? My Girlfriends is a Refurbished one.
Refurbs trade in jsut the same as a new one. think about it like this... A refurb is a used phone, and you are trading in a used phone anyway. :)
Sorry for all the questions.
Thanks!!!
no worries bro, hope i could help! :)
I plan on going into a Radio Shack store on Tuesday to look into Appraising my iPhone. Do I need the Original Box? I have the Accessories and the books that came with my iPhone, but don't have the box.
nope, just the phone :)
Also can I just get an Appraisal without having to agree to it? and
Does my phone have to be resorted to factory setting and my info wiped off if I'm just going in for an Appraisal?
yes, we log in and appraise it, then you can either agree or decline. just tell them you are wanting to know for the launch. It's after you say "ok sounds good" that we start the actual point of sale process. The phone doesnt have to be wiped, just no passcode.
If I decide to go along with the Appraisal and Pre Order an iPhone 4 does the store take my iPhone that day? Or do I keep it until I get the iPhone 4?
You will want to do the trade in when you pick the phone up. We havent got official word on the preorder process for the iphone 4 but if its like the evo, it will work like this...
You pay $50 and we give you a gift card for that ammout and a reservation. When you come in to pick up your (example) $199 phone we apply the $50 ngift card making it 149 you pay right then, then we do the trade in and take that ammount off the 149. :)
I was also wondering if it makes any difference in the appraisal if the phone is a Refurbished or not? My Girlfriends is a Refurbished one.
Refurbs trade in jsut the same as a new one. think about it like this... A refurb is a used phone, and you are trading in a used phone anyway. :)
Sorry for all the questions.
Thanks!!!
no worries bro, hope i could help! :)
CaoCao
Feb 28, 06:54 PM
In what case is inclusionism not a good policy? Being consistent in our thinking and morality is a sign of a logical and sound mind.
I can not think of a single case where making arbitrary exceptions is a good practice.
I have no problem being exclusionist to bad ideas like rape and paedophilia
I can not think of a single case where making arbitrary exceptions is a good practice.
I have no problem being exclusionist to bad ideas like rape and paedophilia
bretm
Apr 10, 11:10 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)
It's not like they threatened anyone. They likely went to the organizers and said "We'd like to make a really cool announcement at your event but we'd need most of your presentation and sponsorship space to do it." SuperMeet said sure, Apple paid, and here we are. It's not like the other sponsors didn't get their money back (I'm assuming.)
The other presenters just had to toss months of planning out the window and scramble to reschedule events w/less than a weeks notice during the industry's biggest annual convention. Hopefully the members of the audience that signed up to see the original line-up will be able to make it to all the reschedule events and, on top of that, everyone going to the SuperMeet has now paid money for tickets to what is nothing more than an Apple PR event.
Dick move by Apple but all will be forgiven as long as they release the holy grail of editing on Tuesday. If they preview 'iMovie Pro' lord help them...
He is asked if he will update his editing studio's workflow to the new Final Cut, and he basically danced around the question, pleaded the 5th, and made it pretty clear that he is holding back some reservations about how the industry will adapt to the changes.
To be fair to Mark (the head of Post at Bunim/Murray) there really isn't anything he could say due to the NDA. Just because what he saw of the new FCP might not lead him to believe it would work in Bunim/Murray's current workflow doesn't mean it might not be awesome for someone else's work flow. It was a tough spot for Mark to be in and I'm not exactly sure why he even kicked off the meeting with "I was there, but don't ask me about it because I'm under NDA". He could've never even have brought it up and it wouldn't have altered the course of the conversation at all.
Lethal
So Avid, Adobe and Canon spent 10 months preparing for a lecture at a FCP users group? And a FCP users group was going to be their main/only avenue for presentation? I think not. This is just another spot they will advertise at during NAB. I'm sure Avid will be at Adobe and Adobe at Avid user groups. FCP just decided to present at NAB at the last second and this was their only in.
It's not like they threatened anyone. They likely went to the organizers and said "We'd like to make a really cool announcement at your event but we'd need most of your presentation and sponsorship space to do it." SuperMeet said sure, Apple paid, and here we are. It's not like the other sponsors didn't get their money back (I'm assuming.)
The other presenters just had to toss months of planning out the window and scramble to reschedule events w/less than a weeks notice during the industry's biggest annual convention. Hopefully the members of the audience that signed up to see the original line-up will be able to make it to all the reschedule events and, on top of that, everyone going to the SuperMeet has now paid money for tickets to what is nothing more than an Apple PR event.
Dick move by Apple but all will be forgiven as long as they release the holy grail of editing on Tuesday. If they preview 'iMovie Pro' lord help them...
He is asked if he will update his editing studio's workflow to the new Final Cut, and he basically danced around the question, pleaded the 5th, and made it pretty clear that he is holding back some reservations about how the industry will adapt to the changes.
To be fair to Mark (the head of Post at Bunim/Murray) there really isn't anything he could say due to the NDA. Just because what he saw of the new FCP might not lead him to believe it would work in Bunim/Murray's current workflow doesn't mean it might not be awesome for someone else's work flow. It was a tough spot for Mark to be in and I'm not exactly sure why he even kicked off the meeting with "I was there, but don't ask me about it because I'm under NDA". He could've never even have brought it up and it wouldn't have altered the course of the conversation at all.
Lethal
So Avid, Adobe and Canon spent 10 months preparing for a lecture at a FCP users group? And a FCP users group was going to be their main/only avenue for presentation? I think not. This is just another spot they will advertise at during NAB. I'm sure Avid will be at Adobe and Adobe at Avid user groups. FCP just decided to present at NAB at the last second and this was their only in.
guet
Aug 12, 06:28 AM
I've never paid for a phone up til now (as is the case with most UK residents I'd assume) so it would be an impressive feat if Apple can persuade people in this type of marketplace to actually put their hands in their pockets for a phone.
I'd pay a couple of hundred pounds for an iPod, so I'd definitely pay that for an iPod which happened to be a phone, pda, gps combo. Millions of iPod/pda users are the market for this kind of device, so it's not the entire phone market, but a good slice of it.
I'd pay a couple of hundred pounds for an iPod, so I'd definitely pay that for an iPod which happened to be a phone, pda, gps combo. Millions of iPod/pda users are the market for this kind of device, so it's not the entire phone market, but a good slice of it.
blahblah100
Mar 31, 07:31 PM
true, but the smugness and self righteousness of Google fanboys are so much worse.
HA HA. You have got to be kidding me.
HA HA. You have got to be kidding me.
Burnsey
Apr 27, 11:00 AM
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2711155/posts?q=1&;page=101
There you have it. The birthers aren't satisfied. I knew it.
If this birth certificate said that Obama wasn't born in the US they would be singing a different tune. Heck they would be singing a different tune given the tiniest most unlikely evidence that he wasn't born in the US.
There you have it. The birthers aren't satisfied. I knew it.
If this birth certificate said that Obama wasn't born in the US they would be singing a different tune. Heck they would be singing a different tune given the tiniest most unlikely evidence that he wasn't born in the US.
gorgeousninja
Apr 19, 04:36 PM
How can this be that 'Apple have a pretty strong case' when so many posters have said that whatever Apple does is generic, and that they have never designed or innovated anything?...
Oh! Ding!!
Must be cos they are all talking cr*p....
Oh! Ding!!
Must be cos they are all talking cr*p....
Vulpinemac
Apr 25, 03:36 PM
I agree, Apple is pretty ridiculous at times.
That must be who you meant, since you clearly haven't had time to read the lawsuit yet.
Or do you think all lawsuits are 'money grubbers'?
Personally, I think all lawsuits are 'Money Grubbers' and should be barred from filing unless there is evidence of criminal intent against the user. Right now the reports are so vague that I expect by the time this lawsuit hits the court, the judge will simply throw it out as frivolous.
That must be who you meant, since you clearly haven't had time to read the lawsuit yet.
Or do you think all lawsuits are 'money grubbers'?
Personally, I think all lawsuits are 'Money Grubbers' and should be barred from filing unless there is evidence of criminal intent against the user. Right now the reports are so vague that I expect by the time this lawsuit hits the court, the judge will simply throw it out as frivolous.
kcmac
Aug 7, 08:54 PM
I don't believe that we have to wait until Spring 2007.:mad:
Oh well. Wait or not, Apple will still be way ahead of Microsoft!
I loved the Vista bashing. Better yet, it came from a French guy!:D
The French have been particularly strong lately. First Landis, Now M$. What happened to the white towel? :D ....sorry couldn't resist.
Oh well. Wait or not, Apple will still be way ahead of Microsoft!
I loved the Vista bashing. Better yet, it came from a French guy!:D
The French have been particularly strong lately. First Landis, Now M$. What happened to the white towel? :D ....sorry couldn't resist.
Bill McEnaney
Mar 1, 04:47 AM
"Homosexuality," Plato wrote, "is regarded as shameful by barbarians and by those who live under despotic governments just as philosophy is regarded as shameful by them, because it is apparently not in the interest of such rulers to have great ideas engendered in their subjects, or powerful friendships or passionate love-all of which homosexuality is particularly apt to produce." This attitude of Plato's was characteristic of the ancient world, and I want to begin my discussion of the attitudes of the Church and of Western Christianity toward homosexuality by commenting on comparable attitudes among the ancients.
Dr. Josiah B. Gould, the Plato scholar who taught me Ancient Philosophy, told us that, that although homosexuality was common among Greek aristocrats in ancient Greece, to them, sodomy was repugnant.
Dr. Josiah B. Gould, the Plato scholar who taught me Ancient Philosophy, told us that, that although homosexuality was common among Greek aristocrats in ancient Greece, to them, sodomy was repugnant.
LagunaSol
Apr 6, 03:47 PM
Real tablet OS, Full internet, True multitasking - the list's expanding fast :D
Google did have to take Open off the talking points list... ;)
Google did have to take Open off the talking points list... ;)
