snebes
Apr 20, 08:43 PM
Too bad Apple products are few and far between. Want LTE phone? Sorry. Want phone with bigger screen? Sorry. Want computer with USB 3.0 or BluRay? Sorry. I guess you trained yourself not to want anything Steve Jobs does not like. You talk about Apple profits so much, it's likely the more Apple charges you the happier you are.
USB3.0 - Truly an Intel problem. This will be fixed with Ivy Bridge. And it isn't as popular as you may think.
BluRay - Has it really caught on? I know you want to think it has, but in reality? Not much. http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/04/19/feeling-blue-blu-ray/ Sure, as the article said, consumers will replace their broken dvd players with bluray, but with backward compatibility, itunes/netflix (and others), and no reason to replace old dvd with newer blurays (of the same flick), it is still an uphill battle. Also, is there even any software/game that comes on bluray media yet?
LTE - Seriously? Just checked PhoneScoop, 1 phone has this on any major network. 1 PHONE! (and how many weeks was it delayed and how many problems does it have, battery-wise)
Screen Size - GSMArena can filter by this, but it includes tablets too. Lets just say around 100 phones have a 4" or larger screen. There are plenty to choose from, but the resolution is still probably 480x800 or 480x854. Just the pixels are bigger.
-----
Apple may not offer what you think you need. Go Andriod. Go WP7. I don't care, but take one thing from your "spec" argument. Bigger is not always better.
USB3.0 - Truly an Intel problem. This will be fixed with Ivy Bridge. And it isn't as popular as you may think.
BluRay - Has it really caught on? I know you want to think it has, but in reality? Not much. http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/04/19/feeling-blue-blu-ray/ Sure, as the article said, consumers will replace their broken dvd players with bluray, but with backward compatibility, itunes/netflix (and others), and no reason to replace old dvd with newer blurays (of the same flick), it is still an uphill battle. Also, is there even any software/game that comes on bluray media yet?
LTE - Seriously? Just checked PhoneScoop, 1 phone has this on any major network. 1 PHONE! (and how many weeks was it delayed and how many problems does it have, battery-wise)
Screen Size - GSMArena can filter by this, but it includes tablets too. Lets just say around 100 phones have a 4" or larger screen. There are plenty to choose from, but the resolution is still probably 480x800 or 480x854. Just the pixels are bigger.
-----
Apple may not offer what you think you need. Go Andriod. Go WP7. I don't care, but take one thing from your "spec" argument. Bigger is not always better.
emotion
Sep 20, 08:36 AM
It looks like a Mini and and i can do exactly the same with the current Mini. Hook up a Mini to a TV and add it to a home network, let it be cabled or wireless. With the frontrow software you can now listen and watch all the content from the other computers in the network with iTunes streaming.
The only differences between a Mini and iTV are the connections on the back, better wireless speed and no DVD. Its pure the price and software that makes it a media device and not a computer.
I can do what an iPod does with my Powerbook too. Doesn't mean I want to use that to play music when I'm walking around.
Likewise, I want a computer at close distance hooked up to a computer monitor, it's less than ideal sat under my TV displaying on a relatively low res screen with a keyboard and mouse teetering on my lap. I know Apple think this too.
With the iTV as I see it you get to have that Mini being a real computer somewhere else in your house.
That said, I could be wrong and it could be a really cut down Mac Mini. I guess we'll see.
The only differences between a Mini and iTV are the connections on the back, better wireless speed and no DVD. Its pure the price and software that makes it a media device and not a computer.
I can do what an iPod does with my Powerbook too. Doesn't mean I want to use that to play music when I'm walking around.
Likewise, I want a computer at close distance hooked up to a computer monitor, it's less than ideal sat under my TV displaying on a relatively low res screen with a keyboard and mouse teetering on my lap. I know Apple think this too.
With the iTV as I see it you get to have that Mini being a real computer somewhere else in your house.
That said, I could be wrong and it could be a really cut down Mac Mini. I guess we'll see.
mattbatt
Oct 31, 02:08 PM
Know your workload. Do you use applications that are multi-core aware? Do you want to run them simultaneously? Do you want to run several applications simultaneously - each doing work at the same time? Leopard is bound to be very multi-core friendly since 4 cores will be the norm when it ships.
Since you have hung on to the Dual 2GHz model for far past its hayday, I'm thinking you don't need 8 cores. I had a Dual 2GHz G5 back in '04 and got the 2.5 soon as it went refurb early '05. By early '06 I was in a panic with not enough power to do my Multi-Threaded Workload. I was in a cold sweat when I ordered the Quad G5 in early February.
I found its limit within a few months and have been enthusiastically awaiting these 8-core Dual Clovertown Mac Pros since before the 4-core Mac Pro shipped.
Since that does not describe you, you may be happy with the 4 core Mac Pro. But if you can afford it and you do Video, 3D work, lots of heavy Photoshop processes and/or want to run a bunch of single core processes simultaneously in the course of a day and/or nights, you would be much better off in the long run with the upcoming 8-core. Figure with RAM it will run you around or above $4k. Does that work for you?
Oh, and I'm not selling my Quad G5 either. :)
Yah, I'm in the same boat BUT I still have my dual G5 2.0 from June '03. You must do a lot of intense processing! Mine still runs great, works fine for me (graphic designer by profession, FCP editor + 3D rendering for fun in Strata CX 4.2). Honestly, FCP could be faster, but I think it is mainly because I am not running a raid and I only have 1.5 GB RAM.
First of all, I think I qualify for some medium to hard data crunching and I can vouch that my dual 2.0 is still a great workhorse. I do plan on waiting for the 8 cores to upgrade so I can be ontop again, (it felt good to have the fastest mac for a while!!!) I also didn't think the Mac Pro was worth the money for me because the PPC software slowdown (for real world tests in CS2, I was running around the same speed). I am also very ready for CS3. I just figure I've waited this long, why not wait a little more . . . though trying to get any $$ for my G5 is going to be hard.
In the 6 pages of threads I read so far, I honestly can say that the 8 cores are going to be awesome, though I hope they offer a 3Ghz model. Anandtech (http://anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2832&p;=9) showed that even the Quad Mac Pro was beat at daily office crunching by the Intel Core 2 Extreme. Ofcourse for multithread, the quad wins but it does show that Ghz still plays a significant role in overal performance, like we all know.
One comment about the FSB: the more truly 64 bit we go, especially with leopard, the more taxed the FSB will become (by pulling gobs of memory at 64 bit addresses). We really haven't done this yet, but I heard computers could actually go slower because of this.
SO, I'm banking on the 8 cores having a faster bus and *wish*wish* being able to support PC graphic cards in crossfire nativly without having to flash the rom . . . you do know, Apple was the first to offer dual graphic cards years ago . . .in a crossfire like fashion? Let's get that back with another 16 lane slot:)
Since you have hung on to the Dual 2GHz model for far past its hayday, I'm thinking you don't need 8 cores. I had a Dual 2GHz G5 back in '04 and got the 2.5 soon as it went refurb early '05. By early '06 I was in a panic with not enough power to do my Multi-Threaded Workload. I was in a cold sweat when I ordered the Quad G5 in early February.
I found its limit within a few months and have been enthusiastically awaiting these 8-core Dual Clovertown Mac Pros since before the 4-core Mac Pro shipped.
Since that does not describe you, you may be happy with the 4 core Mac Pro. But if you can afford it and you do Video, 3D work, lots of heavy Photoshop processes and/or want to run a bunch of single core processes simultaneously in the course of a day and/or nights, you would be much better off in the long run with the upcoming 8-core. Figure with RAM it will run you around or above $4k. Does that work for you?
Oh, and I'm not selling my Quad G5 either. :)
Yah, I'm in the same boat BUT I still have my dual G5 2.0 from June '03. You must do a lot of intense processing! Mine still runs great, works fine for me (graphic designer by profession, FCP editor + 3D rendering for fun in Strata CX 4.2). Honestly, FCP could be faster, but I think it is mainly because I am not running a raid and I only have 1.5 GB RAM.
First of all, I think I qualify for some medium to hard data crunching and I can vouch that my dual 2.0 is still a great workhorse. I do plan on waiting for the 8 cores to upgrade so I can be ontop again, (it felt good to have the fastest mac for a while!!!) I also didn't think the Mac Pro was worth the money for me because the PPC software slowdown (for real world tests in CS2, I was running around the same speed). I am also very ready for CS3. I just figure I've waited this long, why not wait a little more . . . though trying to get any $$ for my G5 is going to be hard.
In the 6 pages of threads I read so far, I honestly can say that the 8 cores are going to be awesome, though I hope they offer a 3Ghz model. Anandtech (http://anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2832&p;=9) showed that even the Quad Mac Pro was beat at daily office crunching by the Intel Core 2 Extreme. Ofcourse for multithread, the quad wins but it does show that Ghz still plays a significant role in overal performance, like we all know.
One comment about the FSB: the more truly 64 bit we go, especially with leopard, the more taxed the FSB will become (by pulling gobs of memory at 64 bit addresses). We really haven't done this yet, but I heard computers could actually go slower because of this.
SO, I'm banking on the 8 cores having a faster bus and *wish*wish* being able to support PC graphic cards in crossfire nativly without having to flash the rom . . . you do know, Apple was the first to offer dual graphic cards years ago . . .in a crossfire like fashion? Let's get that back with another 16 lane slot:)
toddybody
Apr 21, 08:41 AM
So why are you here? :confused:
Yeah, I wonder that too sometimes.
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Yeah, I wonder that too sometimes.
manic
Jul 12, 04:01 PM
The upcomming WWDC has everything to be the coolest, most agressive WWDC ever. If Apple is up to it, we are set to see the strongest Apple line up ever. And thats saying a bit, since the current lineup is already mighty all by itself
balamw
Sep 12, 07:30 PM
It's got USB.
Where? The pics I saw looked like power, Ethernet, HDMI and 5 RCA jacks for component out?
B
Where? The pics I saw looked like power, Ethernet, HDMI and 5 RCA jacks for component out?
B
shervieux
Apr 28, 08:59 AM
The top 3 also have much cheaper models than Apple.. which can contribute to their higher sale spots. Not many people are willing to sell out $1k for a computer, especially internationally. In Brazil, a MBP costs about $3k. DOLLARS. Not many people can afford that..
That's the problem. I see Dell, Hp, etc PC's at walmart with lower specs selling for $400-$500. You get what you pay for. Same for PC's at Bestbuy. The higher spec ones are in the $900 to $1000 range. I think if Apple was to move the price of the current white macbook to $500 more people would buy apple. Then cut the price of all other machines buy $100-$200.
I think also why you are not seeing much macs in the enterprise still:
1. Microsoft exchange and outlook. outlook combines your address book, calendar, mail, and tasks/todos without having 2 or more apps open.
2. Microsoft SQL Server. This has better ODBC connections than other databases when connecting to access, excel, etc. Plus, while I have not verified; other than a source who programs databases in Filemaker and SQL server... Filemaker is elegant, but cannot handle 1000's of transactions per minute like SQL server can. Thus not good for banking or healthcare.
3. iWork still a light application and Office is still the standard.
4. While I have not tried it, I heard Citrix is atrocious on non-windows platforms
5. MS keeps copying Apple features, so fewer people feel the urge to switch.
6. Also, you would be surprised that more and more big corporations are actually using Linux on their servers. Recently in the news, highlighting top North Carolina companies who have not been effected buy the recession; Redhat was focussed upon. They have grown tremendously and now only sell their OS plus applications to enterprise corporations. What makes them strong? RedHat gives 10 years of support for any version for free.
7. Mac pro is rediculous in terms of pricing. However, now that it is rebranded as a server, makes the price ok.
8. While Mac OS X is unix based (Free BSD); running Linux or unix applications on it is 25-50% successful at best. That stinks for open source only users.
As for the iPad, let's just say thanks to the app store - I use mine more than just a net book, toy, entertainment, etc. But I also still rely on my 2008 macbook for some heavy weight applications.
That's the problem. I see Dell, Hp, etc PC's at walmart with lower specs selling for $400-$500. You get what you pay for. Same for PC's at Bestbuy. The higher spec ones are in the $900 to $1000 range. I think if Apple was to move the price of the current white macbook to $500 more people would buy apple. Then cut the price of all other machines buy $100-$200.
I think also why you are not seeing much macs in the enterprise still:
1. Microsoft exchange and outlook. outlook combines your address book, calendar, mail, and tasks/todos without having 2 or more apps open.
2. Microsoft SQL Server. This has better ODBC connections than other databases when connecting to access, excel, etc. Plus, while I have not verified; other than a source who programs databases in Filemaker and SQL server... Filemaker is elegant, but cannot handle 1000's of transactions per minute like SQL server can. Thus not good for banking or healthcare.
3. iWork still a light application and Office is still the standard.
4. While I have not tried it, I heard Citrix is atrocious on non-windows platforms
5. MS keeps copying Apple features, so fewer people feel the urge to switch.
6. Also, you would be surprised that more and more big corporations are actually using Linux on their servers. Recently in the news, highlighting top North Carolina companies who have not been effected buy the recession; Redhat was focussed upon. They have grown tremendously and now only sell their OS plus applications to enterprise corporations. What makes them strong? RedHat gives 10 years of support for any version for free.
7. Mac pro is rediculous in terms of pricing. However, now that it is rebranded as a server, makes the price ok.
8. While Mac OS X is unix based (Free BSD); running Linux or unix applications on it is 25-50% successful at best. That stinks for open source only users.
As for the iPad, let's just say thanks to the app store - I use mine more than just a net book, toy, entertainment, etc. But I also still rely on my 2008 macbook for some heavy weight applications.
ct2k7
Apr 24, 03:33 PM
People from Pakistan and Bangladesh blame a lot of "bad habits" on cultural influence from India (I., B. and P. used to be one country). However, I have never heard of Indians behaving like that in Western countries. How come it seems so easy for Indians to integrate in Western societies, yet so hard for Pakistanis/Bangladeshis? It used to be one country, so there must be something other than just "culture"... care to tell me what it is? I already have an idea and you know very well what it is, so I'm asking you now. What is the big difference here?
To the contrary, having spoken to many Pakistani and Bangladeshi people, most of those I spoke to felt that the counties had taken a literal and poignant view of the framework provided. The same view is not supported by the majority of the population.
One thing that is apparent is that there has been a lot of innovation somewhere in the mix, which has spread towards Pakistan and Bangladesh.
India is much more diversified than Pakistan and Bangladesh, such that the population of Muslims is much less. However, that does not mean that honour killings don't happen in India - they certainly do. e.g. Punjab. I can tell you know as a fact that the majority of honour killings there are not within Muslim families.
To the contrary, having spoken to many Pakistani and Bangladeshi people, most of those I spoke to felt that the counties had taken a literal and poignant view of the framework provided. The same view is not supported by the majority of the population.
One thing that is apparent is that there has been a lot of innovation somewhere in the mix, which has spread towards Pakistan and Bangladesh.
India is much more diversified than Pakistan and Bangladesh, such that the population of Muslims is much less. However, that does not mean that honour killings don't happen in India - they certainly do. e.g. Punjab. I can tell you know as a fact that the majority of honour killings there are not within Muslim families.
Multimedia
Oct 30, 11:47 AM
If I was running upcomming Leopard OSX, a few osx apps, the full upcoming CS3 Suite (not necessarily Batch Processing), have After Effects rendering a 30 minute clip in the background, downloading *legal torrents, watching internet tv (muted), while burning a DVD and listening to music..
That keeping in mind I won't necessariy be rendering-multiple scenes, while encoding, batch processing with a multiple of applications while running SETI@home ;) .... yet
Would that kind of Multi-tasking benefit through Multi-threading on the Octobot's 8-Cores..
Or slighly / not significant enough to warrant Going Octo over Quad..IMHO Definitely. With the Quad each process you describe will run slower and/or flat out bog down the Mac so you can't even word process without waiting for characters to appear. I know this 'cause I already have this happening to me a lot on the Quad G5.
That keeping in mind I won't necessariy be rendering-multiple scenes, while encoding, batch processing with a multiple of applications while running SETI@home ;) .... yet
Would that kind of Multi-tasking benefit through Multi-threading on the Octobot's 8-Cores..
Or slighly / not significant enough to warrant Going Octo over Quad..IMHO Definitely. With the Quad each process you describe will run slower and/or flat out bog down the Mac so you can't even word process without waiting for characters to appear. I know this 'cause I already have this happening to me a lot on the Quad G5.
Hawkeye411
Mar 27, 06:56 PM
This thread is full of win!! Thanks!! :D
Big-TDI-Guy
Mar 14, 08:32 PM
Should they have a full-on meltdown, yes there will be fallout detected around the globe - but I doubt the levels will be high enough to cause concern after thousands of miles to disperse.
As for the divine wind bit... To be fair, we did irradiate them first...
As for the divine wind bit... To be fair, we did irradiate them first...
peharri
Sep 20, 01:51 PM
I think iTV is a waste of time and money for apple. In essence, the mac mini can do ALL OF THAT, plus more, minus the ability to go out via HDMI. If apple just upgraded FRONT ROW to the quality of the iTV user interface, you have an iTV right there on the mac mini! Just add some more ports, including HDMI, cable in for DVR recording, a massive hard drive, and you have a MAC MEDIA CENTER PC! What about connecting to other machines to share content? YOU CAN ALREADY DO THAT!!! In iTunes you say "share my media on my network" and any computer with iTunes can read that information! Come on apple...this iTV thing is a WASTE. It's a dumb down mac mini...apple will make way more money selling mac mini's with TIGER/LEOPARD on it, so not only would you get a DVR, STREAMING MOVIES, DOWNLOADABLE MOVIES TO PLAY ON YOUR TV, but you get WEB TV!!! Or edit a MOVIE ON YOUR BIG ASS TV! Sorry for the rant...I just don't know why apple doesn't merge both technologies together in one system to compete with media center pc, and convert MORE mac sales.
The iTV is going to be $300. You're talking about ordinary users paying well over $600 for a set top box. Requiring that they get a Mac mini raises the barrier to entry but doesn't provide any significant advantage to the person who just wants iTunes on their TV.
The iTV is going to be $300. You're talking about ordinary users paying well over $600 for a set top box. Requiring that they get a Mac mini raises the barrier to entry but doesn't provide any significant advantage to the person who just wants iTunes on their TV.
emotion
Sep 20, 08:40 AM
Come to think of it it is possible that the iTV is in fact an iPod underneath. Might explain some of those persistent wireless ipod rumours and that rumour about an iPod with a 'non-touch' interface.
Just idle thoughts... :)
Just idle thoughts... :)
generik
Sep 26, 01:39 AM
Can I ask a question? I'm a bit non-technical when it comes to things like this.
When particular apps aren't designed to use multiple processors � let's just say randomly, oooo... Adobe Illustrator, for example � what benefit would a machine like this have? Would it run exactly the same as on single processor of the same speed?
Thanks to anyone who can clarify this for me. :)
As far as that one application is concerned, no difference, but you get to do so much more in the background =)
When particular apps aren't designed to use multiple processors � let's just say randomly, oooo... Adobe Illustrator, for example � what benefit would a machine like this have? Would it run exactly the same as on single processor of the same speed?
Thanks to anyone who can clarify this for me. :)
As far as that one application is concerned, no difference, but you get to do so much more in the background =)
Funkymonk
May 2, 09:08 AM
And it begins...
I'z scared :(
I'z scared :(
dethmaShine
Apr 21, 09:38 AM
1. Android phones beat the iPhone to the punch. FACT.
2. Android ALSO helps the needs of those who do not afford to buy an iPhone but need a smartphone. FACT.
3. Android manufacturers are making more money than ever. [Samsung, HTC are a proof] FACT.
4. Android has been a blatant rip off of the iPhone from day 1 OR day -1. FACT.
5. Android provides a very fragmented experience compared to the integrated experience on iOS. FACT.
6. Android is devoid of any viable OR any ecosystem. FACT.
7. Apple makes more profit through the iPhone than all of the competitors combined. FACT.
8. iOS with iTunes, Mac OS X, AppleTV and cloud services provides the best ecosystem available. Arguable. BUT FACT.
9. Apple DOES care about the marketshare; Apple DOES care about the money; APPLE does care about the user experience. FACT.
10. Android fanboys are comparitively bitter and are very rude to the fellow commentors and especially Apple and Steve Jobs. FACT.
That's all I could come up with.
2. Android ALSO helps the needs of those who do not afford to buy an iPhone but need a smartphone. FACT.
3. Android manufacturers are making more money than ever. [Samsung, HTC are a proof] FACT.
4. Android has been a blatant rip off of the iPhone from day 1 OR day -1. FACT.
5. Android provides a very fragmented experience compared to the integrated experience on iOS. FACT.
6. Android is devoid of any viable OR any ecosystem. FACT.
7. Apple makes more profit through the iPhone than all of the competitors combined. FACT.
8. iOS with iTunes, Mac OS X, AppleTV and cloud services provides the best ecosystem available. Arguable. BUT FACT.
9. Apple DOES care about the marketshare; Apple DOES care about the money; APPLE does care about the user experience. FACT.
10. Android fanboys are comparitively bitter and are very rude to the fellow commentors and especially Apple and Steve Jobs. FACT.
That's all I could come up with.
Timothy
Mar 19, 02:04 AM
These rants about the RIAA never fail to amuse me. And, the idea that people who are illegally downloading music are somehow doing a favor to the world is another great myth. It's all justification and *********.
It is really easy to pick a lock. There are lots of people who can do it. Why not run down to your local record store and stock up on CDs? I mean, ***** the RIAA, right?
Posers. Learn the real issues around the music industry if you care. But don't just try to justify theft with some robin hood *********.
It is really easy to pick a lock. There are lots of people who can do it. Why not run down to your local record store and stock up on CDs? I mean, ***** the RIAA, right?
Posers. Learn the real issues around the music industry if you care. But don't just try to justify theft with some robin hood *********.
FX120
Mar 13, 02:38 PM
When a nuclear disaster happens hundreds of thousands of people can die
No. You need to do some research.
No. You need to do some research.
fixyourthinking
Sep 20, 10:22 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)
Long term Apple fans will remember that Apple almost launched an Apple Set Top Box (http://guides.macrumors.com/Apple_Set_Top_Box) years ago but it was never officially released. Interestingly, the system was described as "Apple's ITV system" (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2000/04/20000426204518.shtml) in a press-release, indicating that Apple has recycled this codename (iTV). The final name for the upcoming system has not yet been decided.
Ironically the set top box was "field tested" at Disneyland in California. It was going to be a movie/cableTV and shopping kiosk in your hotel room via your TV.
I own several of these boxes and the hard drives contained videos of Disneyland and shopping.
Long term Apple fans will remember that Apple almost launched an Apple Set Top Box (http://guides.macrumors.com/Apple_Set_Top_Box) years ago but it was never officially released. Interestingly, the system was described as "Apple's ITV system" (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2000/04/20000426204518.shtml) in a press-release, indicating that Apple has recycled this codename (iTV). The final name for the upcoming system has not yet been decided.
Ironically the set top box was "field tested" at Disneyland in California. It was going to be a movie/cableTV and shopping kiosk in your hotel room via your TV.
I own several of these boxes and the hard drives contained videos of Disneyland and shopping.
GGJstudios
Apr 9, 03:14 PM
Adjust their thinking? With all due respect, I hate this type of (fill in the blank).
So then, if someone can use their Windows laptop on their lap -- while wearing shorts -- without a problem... then they try using a Mac laptop the same way but they burn their legs (or worse)... you would suggest that they just need to adjust their thinking?
Seriously??
Since you can't change the heat characteristics of Mac portables, or the heat conductivity of aluminum enclosures.... yes! It's simple common sense. If it's too hot on bare legs, then common sense says, "don't put it on bare legs!" It's so simple, even a cave man could figure it out.
So then, if someone can use their Windows laptop on their lap -- while wearing shorts -- without a problem... then they try using a Mac laptop the same way but they burn their legs (or worse)... you would suggest that they just need to adjust their thinking?
Seriously??
Since you can't change the heat characteristics of Mac portables, or the heat conductivity of aluminum enclosures.... yes! It's simple common sense. If it's too hot on bare legs, then common sense says, "don't put it on bare legs!" It's so simple, even a cave man could figure it out.
WestonHarvey1
Apr 15, 11:46 AM
Even if this were true (and it's demonstrably not true), the whole thing is based on the completely erroneous idea that morality should be dictated by any of our holy books. We do a disservice to humanity by allowing ourselves to remain captive to these bronze age ideals of what is right and wrong.
Erroneous idea to you, but that's just like, your opinion, man.
Demonstrably not true? That's funny, I keep looking in my church bulletin for some fun anti-gay rallies or barbeques but I'm not finding them. I do find that the Catholic high school is going to have a conference on preventing anti-gay bullying, gasp! I bet they're going to pull out that old chestnut from the Catechism, "They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity."
SO MUCH HATE!
The stance itself isn't rational (i.e. based on anything empirical), so it's hard to take it seriously as anything other than "hateful" as you put it.
You know, it's pretty easy to see why some are tempted to just dig in and declare you to be an enemy to be fought at any price - after they extend an olive branch and people like you still come back accusing hate.
It is hateful to trivialize a person's identity; to claim that homosexuality is a "trial", that must be overcome. It's dehumanizing, and it's hateful.
Funny. I find you to be the second most bigoted person I've seen so far on this thread. But that's just like, my opinion.
Erroneous idea to you, but that's just like, your opinion, man.
Demonstrably not true? That's funny, I keep looking in my church bulletin for some fun anti-gay rallies or barbeques but I'm not finding them. I do find that the Catholic high school is going to have a conference on preventing anti-gay bullying, gasp! I bet they're going to pull out that old chestnut from the Catechism, "They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity."
SO MUCH HATE!
The stance itself isn't rational (i.e. based on anything empirical), so it's hard to take it seriously as anything other than "hateful" as you put it.
You know, it's pretty easy to see why some are tempted to just dig in and declare you to be an enemy to be fought at any price - after they extend an olive branch and people like you still come back accusing hate.
It is hateful to trivialize a person's identity; to claim that homosexuality is a "trial", that must be overcome. It's dehumanizing, and it's hateful.
Funny. I find you to be the second most bigoted person I've seen so far on this thread. But that's just like, my opinion.
spipenge
Jun 27, 02:31 AM
I have never had a single call dropped. Here in Orlando I get full service and data speeds of about 450Kb p/s!
Haha
See my post later on about this subject. Again, what a shame that we Americans actually think this is acceptable. That speed is pitiful for a 3G network. I will say it here, as I've said a million times other places, the speeds are just too slow and don't measure up. My partner lives in Ottawa, Canada. On June 24, during mid morning, he received download speed of 6 Mbps. During the evening, he receives speeds in the 7-9 Mbps range.
Haha
See my post later on about this subject. Again, what a shame that we Americans actually think this is acceptable. That speed is pitiful for a 3G network. I will say it here, as I've said a million times other places, the speeds are just too slow and don't measure up. My partner lives in Ottawa, Canada. On June 24, during mid morning, he received download speed of 6 Mbps. During the evening, he receives speeds in the 7-9 Mbps range.
ct2k7
Apr 24, 04:29 PM
no, i've not posted these before...
Not you - someone presented these to me before. They have been heavily edited to suit a point. In some cases, what's being said contradicts an earlier sentence.
the point of
is that if he says whoever guards his chastity is guaranteed paradise then the opposite is true.
Yes. However, remaining in chastity is a real gem. I don't think anyone, till date has ever achieved that.
Most honour killings occur in muslim majority countries, or are perpetrated by muslims.
Correlation does not mean causation. (This phrase is hardwired into my head - it was the only mark I lost in a Biology A Level paper).
and also:
A manual of Islamic law certified as a reliable guide to Sunni orthodoxy by Al-Azhar University, the most respected authority in Sunni Islam, says that "retaliation is obligatory against anyone who kills a human being purely intentionally and without right." However, "not subject to retaliation" is "a father or mother (or their fathers or mothers) for killing their offspring, or offspring's offspring." ('Umdat al-Salik o1.1-2).
I guess Islamic clerics are also misinterpreting Islam's message of peace and inclusion? A person might kill his offspring or offsprings offspring for dishonouring the family.
The thing with that, and I remember someone talking about it, is that there had to be certain conditions which were met before honour killing was even an option.
In the cases I've seen, it is murder without trial. Now Islam upholds the sanctity of life, and the Quran declares that killing one innocent human being is akin to killing the entire human race.
Now, the problem of �honour killings� is not a problem of morality or of ensuring that women maintain their own personal virtue; rather, it is a problem of domination, power and hatred of women who, in these instances, are viewed as nothing more than servants to the family, both physically and symbolically.
Islamic Scholars have continuously condemned honour killings. It is not for us to judge, that is for Allah to decide.
in your refutations of my point you don't seem to find any problem with women being beaten for being unchaste lol.
[quote]
You didn't bring it to my attention ;)
[quote]
my point in mentioning Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 63, Number 196: and the other one which deals with testifying against oneself four times is that it shows that counts as four witnesses for the purposes of someone being found guilty of adultery.
Yes. Whilst this may seem weird, the person giving the witness, if indeed four times, must be trustworthy. In this case she was. She wanted to repent, knowing the proceeds that would occur.
Not you - someone presented these to me before. They have been heavily edited to suit a point. In some cases, what's being said contradicts an earlier sentence.
the point of
is that if he says whoever guards his chastity is guaranteed paradise then the opposite is true.
Yes. However, remaining in chastity is a real gem. I don't think anyone, till date has ever achieved that.
Most honour killings occur in muslim majority countries, or are perpetrated by muslims.
Correlation does not mean causation. (This phrase is hardwired into my head - it was the only mark I lost in a Biology A Level paper).
and also:
A manual of Islamic law certified as a reliable guide to Sunni orthodoxy by Al-Azhar University, the most respected authority in Sunni Islam, says that "retaliation is obligatory against anyone who kills a human being purely intentionally and without right." However, "not subject to retaliation" is "a father or mother (or their fathers or mothers) for killing their offspring, or offspring's offspring." ('Umdat al-Salik o1.1-2).
I guess Islamic clerics are also misinterpreting Islam's message of peace and inclusion? A person might kill his offspring or offsprings offspring for dishonouring the family.
The thing with that, and I remember someone talking about it, is that there had to be certain conditions which were met before honour killing was even an option.
In the cases I've seen, it is murder without trial. Now Islam upholds the sanctity of life, and the Quran declares that killing one innocent human being is akin to killing the entire human race.
Now, the problem of �honour killings� is not a problem of morality or of ensuring that women maintain their own personal virtue; rather, it is a problem of domination, power and hatred of women who, in these instances, are viewed as nothing more than servants to the family, both physically and symbolically.
Islamic Scholars have continuously condemned honour killings. It is not for us to judge, that is for Allah to decide.
in your refutations of my point you don't seem to find any problem with women being beaten for being unchaste lol.
[quote]
You didn't bring it to my attention ;)
[quote]
my point in mentioning Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 63, Number 196: and the other one which deals with testifying against oneself four times is that it shows that counts as four witnesses for the purposes of someone being found guilty of adultery.
Yes. Whilst this may seem weird, the person giving the witness, if indeed four times, must be trustworthy. In this case she was. She wanted to repent, knowing the proceeds that would occur.
mrwalker
Aug 29, 12:39 PM
As a Norwegian I can say that Apple has way more credibility than Greenpeace over here. We have seen what they are all about. Greenpeace is a bunch of spoiled city kids that has no idea what nature is.
